Political discourse
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might need to back up a little. personal, private, and public ownership are different things in one of the areas i worked in. same distinction? personal property is still legal, just privately held businesses not so much. brain’s fuzzy, am i remembering right?
Firstly, this concept only applies to means of production, as in the stuff that is used to produce stuff which could be sold. So e. g. a sewing machine.
Without getting into the weeds:
a. Personal: You own and operate the sewing machine, you pay for the resources consumed and own the item produced. (Good)
b. Private: You own the sewing machine but someone else operates it. You pay the resources consumed, the laborer a previously agreed upon amount and own the item they produced. (bad)
c. Public: the public owns the sewing machine and pays for the resources consumed. The laborer is paid the value of their work. That is, the value of the item produced minus the value of the resources consumed. (Very good)
How “the public” and “the value” are determined is the source of leftist infighting (anarchists vs marxist-leninist). But since both agree that private ownership needs to be abolished the call is for leftist unity to stand together against the people that currently own the means of production privately (the bourgeoisie) and exploit those that have to sell their laborforce in order to survive (the proletariat).
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Imagine looking at the current state of the USA and saying “communists are the problem!”
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Can I be a leftist without being a tankie then?
Not now that the term has expanded to mean everything to the left of Kamala Harris.
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They both support Donald Trump, for example.
lmao what?
They both enable ethnostates to send minorities to camps.
lmao what?
They believe in a nation ruled by one supreme absolute leader.
Dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean total rule by one dude named proletariat, it means total rule by the people.
These liberals and their “both-siding” will be the death of us all
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Yes? You do realize tankies are a minority group and that in many nations “leftist” is just a normal political position?
I’m honestly not sure what you’re trying to say here
The vast majority of communists globally are “tankies”. I know that Westerners don’t consider non-westerners to be “real” though
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You’ve already asserted that everything is politics whether I like it or not, including this conversation, and since I don’t get involved in “prove me wrong” political conversations on the internet I’ll just exit.
So you’re wrong but too arrogant to admit it
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tankies are such a small niche group, i dont think theres enough of them to have a significant on policy, unlike right wingers have real numbers on thier hands.
Isn’t there a difference between the right and the far right though
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That’s still an oversimplification. In reality political opinion varies across a spectrum; it’s not just hard left, hard right, or no opinion. My own views for example are a little left of centre with a leaning towards liberty (i.e. away from authoritarian). So of course I get called a nazi by the hard left, and a tankie by the hard right, both of which are utter nonsense.
a little left of centre with a leaning towards liberty (i.e. away from authoritarian).
Interesting. Tell me, what’s your opinion on the banning of Palestinian Action?
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Firstly, this concept only applies to means of production, as in the stuff that is used to produce stuff which could be sold. So e. g. a sewing machine.
Without getting into the weeds:
a. Personal: You own and operate the sewing machine, you pay for the resources consumed and own the item produced. (Good)
b. Private: You own the sewing machine but someone else operates it. You pay the resources consumed, the laborer a previously agreed upon amount and own the item they produced. (bad)
c. Public: the public owns the sewing machine and pays for the resources consumed. The laborer is paid the value of their work. That is, the value of the item produced minus the value of the resources consumed. (Very good)
How “the public” and “the value” are determined is the source of leftist infighting (anarchists vs marxist-leninist). But since both agree that private ownership needs to be abolished the call is for leftist unity to stand together against the people that currently own the means of production privately (the bourgeoisie) and exploit those that have to sell their laborforce in order to survive (the proletariat).
thanks for the refresher! i have worked in too many similar fields with bullshit jargon where they have basically made homophones antonyms just to fuck with anyone who decides to get uppity and do anything cross-discipline so now my brain is:
it’s one of those “i know i learned this somewhere, and i’ll remember in 3 days i’m sure!” things so thanks for helping a fellow out. -
Isn’t there a difference between the right and the far right though
the one’s who do the bad shit and the one’s who support it. sure if thats enough difference for you ig
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thanks for the refresher! i have worked in too many similar fields with bullshit jargon where they have basically made homophones antonyms just to fuck with anyone who decides to get uppity and do anything cross-discipline so now my brain is:
it’s one of those “i know i learned this somewhere, and i’ll remember in 3 days i’m sure!” things so thanks for helping a fellow out.No issue, here is a good intro to Marxism if you want it https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm
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The vast majority of communists globally are “tankies”. I know that Westerners don’t consider non-westerners to be “real” though
Good thing the political spectrum left of center is far more nuanced than just being communism, then.
Also, not going to get into a debate about whether certain people should be considered people or whatever you’re baiting, sounds like fascism to me.
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Good thing the political spectrum left of center is far more nuanced than just being communism, then.
Also, not going to get into a debate about whether certain people should be considered people or whatever you’re baiting, sounds like fascism to me.
“thinking that non-westerners are people sounds like fascism to me. I’m a leftist by the way”
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“thinking that non-westerners are people sounds like fascism to me. I’m a leftist by the way”
All people are people, regardless of where they live. Borders are just another way for capitalists to fuel the class war. Keep malding that I’m not a tankie
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i’ve known too many people who went anarchist > ancap > asshole > sovcit. I’m sure it works well for you, but i feel like it’s playing with
fireblack tar heroinSay what. No one I know has ever gone down that route. Anarchism is the furthest reach from ancap or sovcit.
I guess I and my friends have the antidote: read some actual theory. You couldn’t possibly agree with theory then go ancap. Sounds like you’re describing YouTube anarchists.
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All people are people, regardless of where they live. Borders are just another way for capitalists to fuel the class war. Keep malding that I’m not a tankie
Incoherent.
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Centrist views such as? grabs popcorn
No seriously, what do you happen to be sitting on the fence about?
Preferring discourse over violence
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Everything you said here i agree with, yet none of this shit you said is centrist
The sister comments to this one are already calling the poster a fascist
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Anyone who stands against genocide and opposes war has been lumped in with “tankie” for a long while now. That centrist is empowering the Nazis.
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Preferring discourse over violence
The difference between the two using the following anecdote explains why I hate what you said: if you ask me politely to go fuck myself, I might or might not comply; if you put a gun to my head and do the same thing, I have no choice but to comply. My point is that violence, including the threat to commit it, works more often than not.
