Every now and then people break into a fight on here over fediverse vs the Atmosphere (or Bluesky, as its main representative).

@stefan I will never fight for Bluesky, I will always fight for atproto. I will never fight for Mastodon, I will always fight for ActivityPub. I believe in the community, not in the organizations with the largest representation.

@stefan honestly its the endless moaning about other sites on here that puts even me off using it - people would do well to understand _why_ people use other sites and actually listen to the answers

@quillmatiq Yeah, this is the main reason I still keep my eye on what's happening around ATProto. Work around Blacksky has been inspiring.

I think a lot of people on here miss that people who are on Bluesky also don't want Bluesky, the company, to be in control, and they've been building tools to wrestle it back.

I still root for the fediverse the most, but maybe there will just be a point when it's much easier to run your own mini-ATProto stack before fediverse shakes off its image of a tiny, toxic, unwelcoming community.

@stefan @quillmatiq I have never heard or read the Fediverse was toxic and unwelcoming. We all know here it isn't true. On the other hand, I still meet lots of people who just don't know it does exist and when I manage to convince them, they're just very satisfied to remain on it. However, I, personally, have a very poor and bad image of the average BlueSky user. Although, I haven't tried it yet, I just think it's much harder and much more exhausting to find interesting accounts to follow on BlueSky than on the Fediverse.

@nelfan

I suggest looking up "mastodon" on Bluesky.

There is about as many people complaining how bad the user experience is here as about the lack of the edit button on Bluesky, and other UX issues.

What does come up a lot is people complaining about the scoldy, gatekeepy culture on here. Screenshots of cringy posts from here get posted regularly.

Sometimes Mastodon, as a stand-in for the fediverse, just comes up randomly, as the butt of the joke.

But I get it. As a straight white dude, my experience on here is amazing! Nobody every bothers me. Maybe on occasion when I post anything pro-trans. But otherwise it's an easy ride. I love it!

I just wish the same for everyone else.

@quillmatiq

For me, a lot of the protocol-level stuff is a bit above my head, so I've been focusing more on advocating. My own followers may be familiar with my work on https://jointhefediverse.net, a site I see regularly shared and linked to.

I also contribute to and curate https://fediverseexplorations.org.

I've made creative bots followed by over 10,000 people.

https://bots.stefanbohacek.com

And there's even more at https://stefanbohacek.com/fediverse!

These are just some ideas, and I hope they encourage and inspire others!

@stefan @quillmatiq I have never heard or read the Fediverse was toxic and unwelcoming. We all know here it isn't true. On the other hand, I still meet lots of people who just don't know it does exist and when I manage to convince them, they're just very satisfied to remain on it. However, I, personally, have a very poor and bad image of the average BlueSky user. Although, I haven't tried it yet, I just think it's much harder and much more exhausting to find interesting accounts to follow on BlueSky than on the Fediverse.

If you have the technical chops, join some of the conversations on https://activitypub.space, help move the protocol that powers the fediverse forward.

Not your cup of tea? You can always donate to your server's admins, or admins of servers your friends are on. Or any server, really. Pick one at random!

But above all, keep a positive attitude. Welcome new people. Encourage positive conversations. Shitpost.

And if you have to vent, go ahead, but don't drag other people down.

@stefan *sigh*

I should also point out my work on @alttexthalloffame.

Same idea. I get frustrated when I see people posting and boosting images without alt text. And I get when people vent about that.

But I've had more luck leading by example, and inspiring people with what a good alt text can look like.

If you truly love something, and care about it, don't let your fears and hate get in the way.

@stefan can I ask how does one get in to the @alttexthalloffame ? I am trying my best but this my instance (#maau) has never featured in any of the other #alttext halls

@Heliograph Oh I think you're thinking of @AltTextHealthCheck?

Different account from a different @stefan@gardenstate.social!

@quillmatiq Yeah, this is the main reason I still keep my eye on what's happening around ATProto. Work around Blacksky has been inspiring.

I think a lot of people on here miss that people who are on Bluesky also don't want Bluesky, the company, to be in control, and they've been building tools to wrestle it back.

I still root for the fediverse the most, but maybe there will just be a point when it's much easier to run your own mini-ATProto stack before fediverse shakes off its image of a tiny, toxic, unwelcoming community.

@stefan @quillmatiq

But what if only one is likely to win and one is designed such that lots of power will accumulate to whoever runs one piece of the infrastructure best because of how the protocol works? then these arguments right now really matter. and it's not about the companies/orgs that currently exist but actually which type of protocol is most widely adopted.

of course I'm annoying and I'm sorry and I might be wrong but what do you do if you think you've fairly thought it through?

@stefan @quillmatiq

But what if only one is likely to win and one is designed such that lots of power will accumulate to whoever runs one piece of the infrastructure best because of how the protocol works? then these arguments right now really matter. and it's not about the companies/orgs that currently exist but actually which type of protocol is most widely adopted.

of course I'm annoying and I'm sorry and I might be wrong but what do you do if you think you've fairly thought it through?

@wjmaggos

Blacksky went from a custom feed to running a full ATProto stack. More will likely follow, and eventually there might even be enough independent communities that don't rely on Bluesky's infrastructure, so that would solve that problem.

@quillmatiq

@stefan @quillmatiq

and there are alternative search engines to Google too. that doesn't change the power they have in spaces built on open protocols. bluesky might be yahoo. but we can already see how being the default app view matters re AT in a way that isn't true with AP.

@wjmaggos

Right. But the bottom line is, not enough people care. And we're not going to reason and argue our way out of that.

People want safe, inviting communities, where they can have a good time.

We just need to get better at meeting those needs.

@quillmatiq

@stefan @quillmatiq

This is big.

People now NEED to be on Facebook etc to keep up with things like school events. I call that "social networking". But "social media" is still seen as entertainment. A good time but superfluous.

I don't think most people will care about social media decentralization until they think it matters in their lives. How people mis/understand the world. Until they recognize harms as due to the byproducts of concentration. As everybody on fedi helping to fix that.

@wjmaggos Right, but so are people working on ATProto.

Going back to what I said in the post you replied to:

"I think a lot of people on here miss that people who are on Bluesky also don't want Bluesky, the company, to be in control, and they've been building tools to wrestle it back."

So, again, we might actually see more independent communities on ATProto before the fediverse becomes safe and inviting. Atmosphere will then be a funner, safer place for everyone, and also more meaningfully decentralized.

@quillmatiq