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  2. Teicneolaíocht | Technology
  3. Fediverse
  4. Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?

Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Fediverse
mastodonux
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  • Scott JensonS Scott Jenson

    @patrick_h_lauke The metrics are clear, people are leaving mastodon, our daily actives are going down. I agree that pursing follower count is not what Mastodon should be about, we likely agree on many points here. I'm just trying to say 'being more welcoming of other points of view' shouldn't be controvertial. Yet so many replies have been "we don't want them here!" which feels very head-in-the-sand to me.

    khmK This user is from outside of this forum
    khmK This user is from outside of this forum
    khm
    wrote last edited by
    #1055
    no way to tell if people are leaving the fediverse or people are just switching to activitypub servers that don't track "daily actives"
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    • Szczur (wersja wiosenna)S Szczur (wersja wiosenna)

      @scottjenson There are many posts explaining why what happened with Black people is different.
      Define, please, reply guys to me. And don't other places have them too?
      My answer why so many people don't stay here is their expectations. Mainly expectations that mastodon is like other social media and what works there should work here too.

      Szczur (wersja wiosenna)S This user is from outside of this forum
      Szczur (wersja wiosenna)S This user is from outside of this forum
      Szczur (wersja wiosenna)
      wrote last edited by
      #1056

      @scottjenson Meanwhile according to my experience mastodonians want people being human and/or passionate about something, not doing their job. We want connections, whether you're a journalist, someone famous or a girl next door.
      So mastodon is not for everybody just as crochetting or riding a roller coaster is not for everybody. You got to enjoy this type of experience.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • Olivia VesperaO This user is from outside of this forum
        Olivia VesperaO This user is from outside of this forum
        Olivia Vespera
        wrote last edited by
        #1057

        @De_Minimis @dalias
        Dr. Becky Smethurst is Legit. I've seen her content and trust it. It's your loss to not watch it. But you're right, they're not simulating every single star. They're taking shortcuts. Modelling simulation always takes shortcuts. She's talking about a CS paper that sounds really interesting, answering the question of what can we do to solve a difficult problem between now and when we have quantum computers that can do the work. It's good science education, Cassandrich.

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        • Scott JensonS Scott Jenson

          Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

          I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

          Link Preview Image
          jablkoziemneJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jablkoziemneJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jablkoziemne
          wrote last edited by
          #1058

          @scottjenson @carnage4life I doubt on if we even can compare those metrics like that.

          These are three different platforms that work in totally different ways. They have different reach, and different algorithms for showing posts to the users.

          Anyway, I feel like tags are havely underutilized (in my feed), dont really provide good filtering options for blocking (they may be not used, or be different to what you have set up) or discovery (only work for viral things, and still may have different variants)

          jablkoziemneJ 1 Reply Last reply
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          • jablkoziemneJ jablkoziemne

            @scottjenson @carnage4life I doubt on if we even can compare those metrics like that.

            These are three different platforms that work in totally different ways. They have different reach, and different algorithms for showing posts to the users.

            Anyway, I feel like tags are havely underutilized (in my feed), dont really provide good filtering options for blocking (they may be not used, or be different to what you have set up) or discovery (only work for viral things, and still may have different variants)

            jablkoziemneJ This user is from outside of this forum
            jablkoziemneJ This user is from outside of this forum
            jablkoziemne
            wrote last edited by
            #1059

            @scottjenson @carnage4life I dont think having bluesky's tagging system would work here, but having some federated lists of common tags that would serve just as reference, with additional option of blocking (or allowing) by user and tag would help in my opinion get discover what you want, and selectivly remove what you dont.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • Scott JensonS Scott Jenson

              Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

              I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

              Link Preview Image
              JustinJ This user is from outside of this forum
              JustinJ This user is from outside of this forum
              Justin
              wrote last edited by
              #1060

              @scottjenson quality journalists are welcome. But those are quite rare these days.

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              • Scott JensonS Scott Jenson

                As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
                1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
                2. Some people don't seem to want that
                3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
                4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
                5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022

                Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.

                The Crafty MissT This user is from outside of this forum
                The Crafty MissT This user is from outside of this forum
                The Crafty Miss
                wrote last edited by
                #1061

                @scottjenson I'm absolutely comfortable with 99% of AI 'journalists' staying away from here.

                How weird to conflate that with the debacle around Black Twitter and the racism people of colour called out on the Fedi, as if not being interested in LLMs is the same as racism.

                And everyone talks about AI all the time on Masto, predominantly critically

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • Scott JensonS Scott Jenson

                  @patrick_h_lauke The metrics are clear, people are leaving mastodon, our daily actives are going down. I agree that pursing follower count is not what Mastodon should be about, we likely agree on many points here. I'm just trying to say 'being more welcoming of other points of view' shouldn't be controvertial. Yet so many replies have been "we don't want them here!" which feels very head-in-the-sand to me.

                  PPNP This user is from outside of this forum
                  PPNP This user is from outside of this forum
                  PPN
                  wrote last edited by
                  #1062

                  @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke “The metrics are clear, people are leaving mastodon, our daily actives are going down.”
                  This is exactly the kind of stupid meltdown that shows exactly how you are still brainwashed by monolithic social media dumpster fire driven by engagement, profit and a fake notion of inclusivity. You are still trying to mimic Twitter and you don’t belong on Mastodon, senile old man.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • pmjv s klapkami na očíchP This user is from outside of this forum
                    pmjv s klapkami na očíchP This user is from outside of this forum
                    pmjv s klapkami na očích
                    wrote last edited by
                    #1063
                    man, I've been learning so many new cool words from this thread.

                    CC: @scottjenson@social.coop
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                    • NikN Nik

                      @scottjenson So I am concerned that you are using "bad faith" instead of "said mean things to me and my feelings are hurt, so I'm going to ignore their points".

                      You characterised this as "Half the people were mad at me for "pushing AI slop", the other half saying that calling for more tolerance was "letting in fascists". (https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116359910629013334).

                      But that's just not an accurate characterisation.

                      On the specific topic of engagement I want to highlight a couple of points made by others:

                      marquis de karabas-barabasP This user is from outside of this forum
                      marquis de karabas-barabasP This user is from outside of this forum
                      marquis de karabas-barabas
                      wrote last edited by
                      #1064

                      @nikclayton @scottjenson I'm not sure if you had some pent up anger and anxiety that we just caught a stray, or what. But these characterizations are unfair based on OPs questions. And I say that as the Fediverse's number 1 critic.

                      I can guarantee you if you would've answered "I don't know," you wouldn't have received the pushback you're clearly anticipating.

                      I'm listening to your podcast as I type this, and hearing how you all want to leave corporate social media, but you're here treating this place like corporate social media.

                      This isn't a place where everyone's goal is centered on themselves. People here care about the collective, because otherwise why would anyone be here? There's no algorithm to game.

                      No one expects you to have all the answers because no one here has all the answers. But people do expect you to participate in the greater community.

                      That starts with dropping the smug attitude, man. You have no idea what the average Mastodonian is like. You only know what the tech elite say about us. And most of that is wildly unfair characterizations.

                      This is one of the only places on the Internet fighting the corporatization of the web.

                      We have trust and safety folks working their ass off for little to no pay. Server admins paying out of pocket so we can have something better than Facebook. Developers submitting bugs and building infrastructure so you can come here and conduct your experiment.

                      Those people deserve more than a knee jerk reaction. So recalibrate.

                      What you're doing here has a potential to be something really cool. But it won't work if you're gonna isolate yourself from the people you need. And trust me, you will need them.

                      You will soon learn how hard it is to keep this place afloat. And that's before considering how many in the corporate web don't want us here.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Yet another Josh :donor:C Yet another Josh :donor:

                        @tiotasram @dzwiedziu @scottjenson @tael

                        An image analyzing LLM that provides alt-text would be imminently useful all across the internet.

                        Is #LLM still bad when its used for #disability and #assistivetechnology?

                        DźwiedziuD This user is from outside of this forum
                        DźwiedziuD This user is from outside of this forum
                        Dźwiedziu
                        wrote last edited by
                        #1065

                        @crankylinuxuser
                        An LLM can't analyse an image by itself.

                        This is computer vision and neural networks.
                        LLM's might be then used then to rewrite the CV/NN output.

                        @tiotasram @scottjenson @tael

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Scott JensonS Scott Jenson

                          Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

                          I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

                          Link Preview Image
                          Reid :blobcathappy:R This user is from outside of this forum
                          Reid :blobcathappy:R This user is from outside of this forum
                          Reid :blobcathappy:
                          wrote last edited by
                          #1066
                          @scottjenson @carnage4life Would've been an echo chamber if you had something tipping the scales, be it some algorithm or human moderators, but in this case people simply chose not to follow certain topics. This is simply the Court of Public Opinion at work, and AI has been deemed unwanted by the jury.
                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Diogo ConstantinoD Diogo Constantino

                            @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke What do you understand of being welcome of other people's points of view?

                            Do we have to agree?
                            Do we have to like?
                            Do we have to share?
                            Is it hostile if we don't do those things?

                            Should we be forced to engage with topics we don't care about (no matter what they are)?

                            Being hostile and not engaging is not the same, and this is the first toot in this thread I see you making that it somehow clear.

                            Baron VonskinnbackV This user is from outside of this forum
                            Baron VonskinnbackV This user is from outside of this forum
                            Baron Vonskinnback
                            wrote last edited by
                            #1067

                            @DiogoConstantino @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke the last time somebody said you need to listen to alternative points of view they went on to tell me that Jews were running in the world. Quite frankly there are a lot of opinions and views that I'm glad I don't get the pleasure of having algorithmically jammed down my throat...🤣

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                            • Marsh RayM Marsh Ray

                              @dzwiedziu No worries man.

                              I’m not familiar with “appeal to literary”. I’m always on the lookout for new fallacies.

                              Or did you mean that you didn’t like people implying you couldn’t read for yourself (which is of course understandable).

                              DźwiedziuD This user is from outside of this forum
                              DźwiedziuD This user is from outside of this forum
                              Dźwiedziu
                              wrote last edited by
                              #1068

                              @marshray
                              Thanks

                              It is something I've coined based on my experience on SM. The term just lately materialised, so treat it as an prototype at best.

                              Usually it's an argument that one can't read/understand or did not read/understood a text correctly.

                              First case is just a “ad hominem” in too many words.
                              Both can be rejecting a different interpretation of a text than the original author intended, instead of interrogating (probably a named fallacy also, but I can't recall which).

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Iris Young (he/they/she) (PhD)I Iris Young (he/they/she) (PhD)

                                @gavin57 and I'm still salty about Framework. I was 100% going to get one of their computers in the next couple of years and now I am 100% not going to, and there's no good substitute, and why can't we have nice things??

                                Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O This user is from outside of this forum
                                Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O This user is from outside of this forum
                                Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:
                                wrote last edited by
                                #1069

                                @iris @gavin57 I'm hopeful about the mnt reform.

                                GavinG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:

                                  @iris @gavin57 I'm hopeful about the mnt reform.

                                  GavinG This user is from outside of this forum
                                  GavinG This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Gavin
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #1070

                                  @onepict @iris MNT?

                                  Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • GavinG Gavin

                                    @onepict @iris MNT?

                                    Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #1071

                                    @gavin57 @iris

                                    It's an open hardware company. They have some @NGIZero funding for their next project. The mnt reform next.

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    MNT Research GmbH

                                    MNT Research makes open source hardware laptops, mobile devices and keyboards that are modular and repairable. Designed and assembled in Berlin, EU.

                                    favicon

                                    (mntre.com)

                                    GavinG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:

                                      @gavin57 @iris

                                      It's an open hardware company. They have some @NGIZero funding for their next project. The mnt reform next.

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      MNT Research GmbH

                                      MNT Research makes open source hardware laptops, mobile devices and keyboards that are modular and repairable. Designed and assembled in Berlin, EU.

                                      favicon

                                      (mntre.com)

                                      GavinG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      GavinG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Gavin
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #1072

                                      @onepict @iris @NGIZero Cheers Esther, I had not heard of these. It does look interesting.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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