Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson What the fuck is an "AI journalist"? Whether it's an AI booster or a slop creator that generates "news stories," fuck off with that noise.
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@scottjenson I’m not interested in following any “AI people”. That doesn’t make it an echo chamber. We don’t need equal amounts of people who love puppies and want to kill puppies, not everything needs to be equally represented.
@Gargron @scottjenson the idea that things need to be "equally represented" is exactly how Twitter became a site where it's just Elon's AI shoving incels and fascism onto your timeline 24/7
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@ben But that's the very definition of a mono-culture. A vibrant community allows all of these topics, encourages them even. Then, with filters, who you follow, hashtags, and blocking you get the feed you want.
To get the culture you want by cutting off the supply is counter productive.
"To get the culture you want by cutting off the supply is counter productive."
Who is actually cutting off any supply?All i can see is someone complaining that on mastodon "no numbers go up" ...
Do you actually know that we are _NOT_ here to see random numbers go up but to organically comunicate and network with eachother?
Who told you that "numbers go up" is a viable metric for social communication?
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@scottjenson @awfulwoman Are we chasing them away? (I may have missed the data point behind this argument in this thread)
@defuneste @scottjenson I’m feeling it’s more “we don’t scream in delight when they arrive”.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson in my response I'm using AI synonymous to contemporary media use of the term.
From the screenshot all three platforms seem at most lukewarm to AI.
I would expect to find less AI enthusiasts who would react positively to AI posts on Mastodon as the federated network explicitly advertises feeds in publish date order as a feature. So no surprise there.
For things like politics and tech I'd be interested more in click through data than on platform engagement as for
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson
I'm sorry, but I honestly don't see the problem. And I don't see what you want to achieve with this discussion.
What do you want us (?) to do? Send at least 2 toots per day per person praising AI? Forcing our far-right familiy members to join Mastodon ("bring in more voices")? -
@scottjenson in my response I'm using AI synonymous to contemporary media use of the term.
From the screenshot all three platforms seem at most lukewarm to AI.
I would expect to find less AI enthusiasts who would react positively to AI posts on Mastodon as the federated network explicitly advertises feeds in publish date order as a feature. So no surprise there.
For things like politics and tech I'd be interested more in click through data than on platform engagement as for
@scottjenson publishers this drives revenue. I know German tech publisher @heiseonline did this analysis very early on and found Mastodon to exceed other platforms on number of clicks through to their articles (they are a tech publisher)
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@ben and I want to support you, you have every right to view what you want. I'm not asking you to see anything you don't want.
I'm just saying that solving this issue by gatekeeping is a slippery slope. We need better filtering tools, not a purity test of who is allowed to post here.
"solving this issue by gatekeeping is a slippery slope"
Who is actually gatekeeping?
Is this gatekeeper here in this room right now?
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@scottjenson Interesting reference to black twitter in regard of AI. You know there's a whole documentary about how blinkin' racist AI systems are?
Coded Bias it was called. Perhaps you should check it out. https://www.codedbias.com/about
Please don't use the term inclusivity with regard to AI people. I'd argue that welcoming AI people would make Mastodon less inclusive.
@scottjenson Also: A study titled 'AI generates covertly racist decisions about people based on their dialect' https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07856-5
AI has a racism problem, but fixing it is complicated, say experts https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/artificial-intelligence-racism-bias-1.6027150
UK: Police forces ‘supercharging racism’ with crime predicting tech https://www.amnesty.org.uk/latest/uk-police-forces-supercharging-racism-crime-predicting-tech-new-report/
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@scottjenson @carnage4life Let me guess, "Mastodon [is] ... lukewarm to politics" is because you're refusing to CW stuff and have bad takes?
@november @scottjenson @carnage4life@mas.to folks would do well to really dwell on this question.
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@evan @cratermoon Exactly, even asking that question "What value do they bring" is kind of scary.
It's a fine line, I get it. We draw the line at nazis and scammers but let's not cross the line into "intellectual purity" tests
@scottjenson Are you fucking insane? "Intellectual purity" tests? Yeah, excuse me for excluding slop-generators from what I consider to be of "intellectual" value.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
Are you serious ? While I won’t argue most people on here lean on a particular part of the political spectrum. I will challenge you on calling AI dissonance an echo chamber. It’s universally agreed that anyone who isn’t trying to make a profit off of it genuinely hates it. Corporations, venture capitalists and social “influencer” grifters are choosing to ignore it. But I can promise you from across the land from Mastodon to Instagram most people hate anything involving AI.
Introducing any form of algorithm or any form of AI to drive content would fundamentally destroy the very thing Mastodon was built for.
What you’re asking for already exists on X, Facebook and even BlueSky. Go back there with your venture capitalist buddies and concoct more ways to milk dry what you can before the next tech bubble bursts. And the rest of clean up the mess.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
Then they can stay away, lol.
The Fediverse is the peak of freedom of association in regards to social media.
That's certainly not worth sacrificing just to boost analytics. -
@EndlessMason @scottjenson @cratermoon @evan this. I’ve been struggling to articulate that this whole conversation appears to be nonsense. Nobody is stopping AI bros or even straight-up Nazis from joining mastodon. This platform is literal anarchy.
Anybody can join. Anybody can say whatever they want. Anyone can chose to block or defederate from anyone they want. There are no limits or rules, beyond those imposed by individual instances and users over their own feeds.
What more could you possibly ask for in terms of ‘inclusiveness’?
The only thing you cannot have on this platform is a guaranteed audience. If people don’t want to follow you or see your toots, they have that option. There absolutely, 100% are pro-AI people on Mastodon. Technically, even Truth Social is Mastodon, it’s just not federated with anyone else.
@josh0 @EndlessMason @scottjenson @cratermoon @evan
Look at who started this. Worked for Google, Apple, Android.
This place was built as a direct fuck you to the kind of bullshit corpo fascists you worked for pushed on us.
And now your trying to push even more corpofash bullshit into this place and have the balls to tell us WE are the problem?
Dude, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. The people you served your whole professional life are destroying people's minds, lives, and even countries. Now you are diligently pushing the fucking garbage into every nook and cranny, looking for new worlds to exploit.
Fuck you. Fuck Google, Apple, Microsoft, and all the sloplords who are holding the reins attached to your bit. Sell your hellish garbage somwwhere else.
User Experience? You, sir, experience an awful goddamned day.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life lesson: no one likes AI and they don't like reading this authors posts on AI
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson kicking AI sloppers off servers is absolutely the correct stance in the fediverse.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
OK, this is going even MORE sideways so I need to make a few things clear:
1. I took a complex point and made it poorly
2. My goal was to ask for more inclusiveness
3. I am sickened by what happend to BlackTwitter and I don't want it recur
4. But I can't speak for BlackTwitter nor should I
5. I apologize to black mastodon users for making such a poor comparison
6. I'm not endorsing "AI Slop" they were a foil to make my point
7. I'm certainly NOT trying to compare AI bros to Black twitter (but, as I said, I can see how people made that connection. I'm trying to correct that here) -
As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson Are you comparing "marginalized" people to AI models that lie, spread slop and misinformation, and cause addiction and mental psychosis among vulnerable users?
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@scottjenson Are you comparing "marginalized" people to AI models that lie, spread slop and misinformation, and cause addiction and mental psychosis among vulnerable users?
@AAKL no
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Are you serious ? While I won’t argue most people on here lean on a particular part of the political spectrum. I will challenge you on calling AI dissonance an echo chamber. It’s universally agreed that anyone who isn’t trying to make a profit off of it genuinely hates it. Corporations, venture capitalists and social “influencer” grifters are choosing to ignore it. But I can promise you from across the land from Mastodon to Instagram most people hate anything involving AI.
Introducing any form of algorithm or any form of AI to drive content would fundamentally destroy the very thing Mastodon was built for.
What you’re asking for already exists on X, Facebook and even BlueSky. Go back there with your venture capitalist buddies and concoct more ways to milk dry what you can before the next tech bubble bursts. And the rest of clean up the mess.
Moreover should all voices be heard ?
Nostr a crypto cess pool allows AI and bot accounts rampantly. The first post I saw when I choose to look at an instance? (one that was featured on the main page)“SuperJews: why we need to get them under control “
Does that sound like content that better enriches people ? I think it sounds like pointless hate for hate sake.Are you trying to make social media your job ? Are you trying to make money from your posts. Then go some where else. Mastodon is for connections and community not profit …
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