Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?

@scottjenson Thanks Scott. There is nuance and it does invite careful consideration.

If we stick with the example of AI, I am still concerned about the distinction between people who use/develop it and the technology itself, and between being allowed and being welcomed. As long as we are discussing the people, they are always allowed, but not always welcomed. And whether they're welcomed is a result of how they behave. What they put in their profiles, how they engage with other people, what they bring to the community. If people find their behavior unacceptable, they aren't welcomed, and this is not a sequence of events I am anxious to interrupt.

What I think you're getting at, however, with the comment about simplistically driving [people] out is a reaction disproportionate to the stimulus and a copycat effect, sometimes leading to dogpiling. You mentioned ad hominem attacks specifically in a previous reply. If we're getting into the territory of harassment, then we have an issue. I don't want to fall prey to the fallacy of "if I don't see it happening, it's not happening" so I won't claim that, but I do suspect such things are already covered by servers' rules of engagement.

I'm inclined to believe the issue, then, isn't that particular ideas are unwelcome, but rather that our (collective) responses to server rule violations aren't cutting it. We know we have a poor track record of retaining Black people on mastodon because of harassment campaigns and inadequate moderation tools, for example. You have gotten some other responses here about how harassers have found a stronger foothold here than on other platforms -- that's a real issue.

It's also possible that relying on individual servers to set reasonable rules and using (de)federation as the mechanism of excluding servers with inadequate safeguards is not functioning well. That's above my paygrade, but I know server mods (including mine) have a lot of thoughts about this.

@scottjenson @pmdj @dalias

"If you don't like them, then don't follow them. That should be the fedi-way"

I want people to build communities here. What you are proposing is what I've started calling "toxic individualism" - most Americans are taught this, and it's so pervasive that many of us don't even realize we are swimming in it.

But it prevents the many weak from coming together to protect themselves from the few powerful. I'm tired of being blandly atomized.

Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

@scottjenson Yes, Scott, don't you know? I love all those things.

@katzenberger

@kevin and that completely misses my point. It's not about 'having an instance" it's about actively going after people you disagree with. Just read the replies I've been getting. I'm being told to leave the fediverse, I'm being called racist, people are making ad hominum attacks, etc.

THAT turns out to be what I'm actually talking about (I didn't realize when I stated but I became the point I was trying to address). We have a culture here that actively attacks others. No about of "making your own instance" protects you from that.

@stefan

If you promote AI, you do defend that, too. Indeed.

A rare case of insight. Hold on to it.

@scottjenson

@evan @cratermoon Exactly, even asking that question "What value do they bring" is kind of scary.

It's a fine line, I get it. We draw the line at nazis and scammers but let's not cross the line into "intellectual purity" tests

@scottjenson you're being called racist because you engaged in racism, dude

But reading your responses to this thread, I don't think you're ready for the realization that comparing marginalized communities to AI boosters is not only disingenuous but the very definition of The Problem and why Mastodon deserves to fail

@katzenberger But I'm not promoting AI, all I said was that attacking each individual user of it online does nothing to save the environment and help the working class.

Again, this is not a serious conversation. Let's just drop it.

@scottjenson

@jztusk @scottjenson @pmdj @dalias hahaha. No. You want to build influence. Hard to do when the incentive to take part isn’t clicks or money or steered through an algorithm. If your idea of community is followers, that is not a community.

@pmdj @dalias

That is the exact opposite of what I said. I'm saying the fediverse gives you the tools to follow/block/filter/ to your hearts content to create the space you want.

What is corrosive is people ACTIVELY going after people they don't agree with. Just look at the replies to my post to get small sample.

My point was, I thought, very simple, and very reasonable: we should be more welcoming of more opinions. If you don't like them, then don't follow them. That should be the fedi-way. To be clear, I'm NOT endorsing AI, it just used it as an example.

Instead I'm living the very point I was trying to make. I've been told to leave, called a racist, and had ad hominem attacks leveled at me.

Now to be fair, my original post was poorly worded. I've owned that
https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116358195717244835

@scottjenson @dalias So, the harassment via randos (or bots) in mentions/replies has been a problem for at least as long as I‘ve been on the Fedi. You absolutely need standards on how to behave, and those need to be backed by technological and social mechanisms or things devolve into a toxic mess. I think most of us are with you so far. However…

@scottjenson @dalias So, the harassment via randos (or bots) in mentions/replies has been a problem for at least as long as I‘ve been on the Fedi. You absolutely need standards on how to behave, and those need to be backed by technological and social mechanisms or things devolve into a toxic mess. I think most of us are with you so far. However…

@pmdj @scottjenson Those problems would be largely fixed by reply controls and a working* block function, but for some reason Mastodon team can't give us those.

(*) By "working", I mean a block function that detaches all past replies by the account you're blocking from your posts, so that you're not serving as a billboard for their opinions every time someone expands your toot.

@lispi314 @pmdj @scottjenson No, it's a matter of how your instance responds (and how other instances sync that) when queried for the thread context around one of your posts. This is not mere UI.

@pmdj @scottjenson Those problems would be largely fixed by reply controls and a working* block function, but for some reason Mastodon team can't give us those.

(*) By "working", I mean a block function that detaches all past replies by the account you're blocking from your posts, so that you're not serving as a billboard for their opinions every time someone expands your toot.

@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.

Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.

@evan @mastodonmigration
Maybe somebody should ask people/groups like @georgetakei @ProPublica and @msfreepress how they thrive driving content and engagement in the Fediverse because they all maintain both dedicated Mastodon accounts and dedicated accounts on other platforms.

@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.

Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.