Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?

@lispi314 @pmdj @scottjenson If you have a client that's stitching them together, that's your business.

But my instance should not be using the "fetch context of this post by me" action to advertise hostile replies by someone I've explicitly blocked to others who are reading what I've written.

@dalias @lispi314 Yeah, the mutability argument is pretty weak; posts are already mutable: you can edit or entirely delete them. I don’t understand why that can’t extend to cutting off unwanted branches, or retroactively changing visibility.
If my post gets boosted too much and attracts toxic attention outside my usual community, my only options are to either bear the abuse (feebly blocking individuals) or to delete it for my followers too.
@scottjenson

@scottjenson He's a large presence on multiple platforms so we should listen to him. I'd always thought/assumed that Mastodon provided the most engagement, but I'm willing to accept that I was wrong about that.

Personally, while I enjoy Dare's posts, I never actively 'engage' with them. He never enters into conversations with people, and conversations are what I come to Mastodon for.

@danbrotherston @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke

> Counter-culture knows what it's like to be excluded.

Sure. It does not follow that counter-culture is not also exclusive, that makes no sense.

> The idea that "mainstream" voices are being "excluded" is ridiculous...mainstream voices are never excluded...it's actually a decent definition of "mainstream".

Yes, they're not excluded _from mainstream spaces_; people come here _to avoid those spaces_ and thus as a direct rejection of the people _who are in them_. This argument also makes no sense.

Fedi can reasonably be defined by what it is _not_. It is absolutely hostile towards corporate actors, engagement farming, and much of "normal" / "mainstream" culture.

Twitter remains a much more mainstream space; many people are here specifically to avoid it _and the people on it_. Which continues to be, well, most of them.

@pixx @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke

Oh no....we're hostile to engagement farming and corporate PR departments.

No, you're right...we're inclusive of people...ONLY people.

People in "mainstream" places are not excluded here, neither are mainstream viewpoints and opinions nor mainstream ideas.

The only thing that is being excluded then is financialization and corporate capture.

I call that "inclusive".

It's the equivalent of the paradox of tolerance. Being tolerant of intolerance is intolerant. Being inclusive of grifts and PR is exclusive.

I am not here to avoid the PEOPLE on twitter...I'm here to avoid the grifts, bots, and nazis--ooh...woops, you're right...we are not inclusive of Nazi's either. I guess you have a point....

Honestly, I find this take bizarre...this place has it's problems, but it's vastly more inclusive than Twitter or Bluesky.

@Kierkegaanks

Ayn Rand? You mean the person who railed against 'socialism' while collecting Social Security checks and living a rent-controlled apartment?

@scottjenson

@scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke
When Twitter went full Nazi Bar, a lot of writers and journalists I followed there came to Mastodon, where I duly followed them.

Within a month, virtually all of them went silent here, but post regularly on Bluesky, where I maintain an account primarily to stake my username.

Since posting on two or more sites is a cut&paste exercise, I don't understand their behavior at all.

When broadcast media was invented, the only way to know if people were listening, then watching, was by sampling surveys.
Now, it's follower counts, or god forbid, boosts and likes. I do *read* print columnists whose opinions I don't like, and I often skip reading ones I do like if the topic holds no interest for me.

Accordingly, I follow a lot of people here, but get more from the posts *they* boost, from people I don't follow.

So there's really no metric feedback for hundreds of posts I read every week, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be publishing here.

I do often boost items I like, but receive virtually no feedback from my small population of followers, whose change in numbers I don't track, but assume if they're still following me, they appreciate, or at least don't hate what I boost. My own posts are mostly whispers into the void (per the feedback), but that doesn't stop me from making them, and I assume they're glanced at the same as I do with what scrolls through my home feed.

@danbrotherston @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke

Fedi is very inclusive of traditionally excluded people, and very _unfriendly_ to normies, even if it's not actively hostile.

There's also a very, very obvious political bias, which is just as extreme (but in different directions) than mainstream platforms, and one which is not particularly welcoming of normie opinions either.

Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

@jztusk @scottjenson @pmdj @dalias hahaha. No. You want to build influence. Hard to do when the incentive to take part isn’t clicks or money or steered through an algorithm. If your idea of community is followers, that is not a community.

@fishidwardrobe @scottjenson @dalias @pmdj this analogy comparing AI people to ‘people killing puppies’ is … interesting.

One I would argue is completely uncalled for.

As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022

Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.

Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

@danbrotherston @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke

Example: I have very strong negative opinions about AI. I also know that _almost everyone_ I've encountered IRL has at least found it _cool_. At least one friend has said they only avoid AI because they know _I_ don't like it.

Anyone talking about AI in anything resembling a positive light is probably going to have a bad time here. That's a _lot_ of normal people right now.

There's a lot of things that are normal that probably shouldn't be that people here do not like. This does not change that they are normal.

Normal people coming here and talking normally _will_ receive harassment because of it.

@scottjenson @Gargron I just came back to my Mastodon account and one of the first things I see is people who have an interest in something being compared to puppy-killers by the "head" of Mastodon.

<turns it back off again>

@scottjenson This is honestly SO WEIRD.

Nobody is keeping "AI People" from joining Mastodon. There just isn't a gate to gatekeep. AI-booster discourse doesn't have traction here because individuals have better control over what's in their feeds, so we can easily filter it, and as a result, they get less traction.

I blocked the person you link a few months ago because their AI-booster content was overwhelmingly annoying and I didn't want to see it anymore. Now I like my feed more!

@lispi314 @dalias @pmdj @scottjenson Who are you exactly and defend why I should care? What makes you relevant?