Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?

Jo - pièce de résistance

@Jakenke @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson
We must not reward this iteration that does not care about the quality of input or output and doesn’t have the ethics or desire for equality to evaluate data quality.
Techbros are in a circle-jerk bubble within a reality and investment bubble. It’s currently a castle in the air with no sustainable or healthy foundation for humanity to survive alongside it.
But I do see uses similar to Buckminster Fuller’s World Game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Game

Jo - pièce de résistance

@Jakenke @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson take a look at one version that it could be used for Buckminster Fuller’s World Game - a concept for resource and energy management.
I just posted on an example. But until their data is created and assessed ethically, wholistic, with regard to its impact, then it’s not worth the cost when gathering competent people together is far superior and effective l

Jakenke

@JoBlakely @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson

That means using it for things like climate modeling, green energy/storage R&D, green energy deployment, infrastructure resilience research, etc etc.

It bothers me that AI is being used as a scapegoat for the climate crisis by some, as if stopping AI will save us. We were barreling toward the cliff’s edge and arguably already fell over it well before AI started consuming significant amounts of energy.

Szczur (wersja wiosenna)

@scottjenson It would help if you answer the question what precisely is for your bigger tent? What consists more welcoming Mastodon? Because your first post suggest boosts, and favorite. Then you mention people writing more or less "I don't want you here" (most people here don't do this anyway). So what do you really want? Specifics, please.

Kevin Carson

@JoBlakely @Jakenke @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson Exactly. Virtually nothing posted by AI techbros will be relevant to our needs.
I feel the same way about AI that Freeman Dyson did about GMOs. He argued that they might be useful if developed in local, open-source community biolabs in varieties suited to low-input intensive horticulture and agriculture, like a faster and more extreme version of traditional climate-hardy varieties. But virtually all adoption of GMOs right now, and all media and political discussion of them, involves proprietary versions developed for integration into large-scale agribusiness using heavily subsidized irrigation and fertilizer inputs, on enormous tracts of stolen land.

Xavier

@haubles @pa @andypiper thank you for following up. Having someone around the project demonstrating so much unexamined privilege is a significant red flag.

xinniw

@scottjenson

This only pertains to the vitreol not the rest of the critique:
Ill say my own impulse to mock and deride comes from a deep fear that we won't survive. I know that in 2020 ICT was ~3% of GHG emmissions. That was before the bubble. Yet we keep playing with these toys. It seems suicidal and that scares me so fucking much. I am so tired of being scared.

I wonder if the ideas in "we will not cancel us" by adrienne marie brown might be a more helpful lens. Its nuanced and still allows for setting appropriate community boundaries (ie. nazi punks fuck off, harm doers need to be separated from those they harmed etc...) She writes about "call out" culture on the left and how it helps our enemies more than in defends us. It belies an unstated belief that people cannot change. She writes about the counter-belief, that we are each capable of harm and repair, that repair should be prioritized. Abuse should not be conflated with harm and harm should not be conflated with conflict. She writes about desiring repair and believing in our capacity for change "I want us to want to live"

This is different than asking for politeness or civility. She is asking do our tactics (the call out) prefigure the kind of world we want to live in? Are they serving us?
I also want to offer this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y85nqc2zm7M

Jakenke

@JoBlakely @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson

Hadn’t heard of that before. Very interesting read, thanks.

Jo - pièce de résistance

@Jakenke @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson

AI made it exponentially worse just as we were making progress with solar, wind, etc. it derailed progress. That is why it is so terrible. It is not a scapegoat it is a cause. It did not build a foundation for its own sustainability before it was thrust upon us prematurely. They fired their ethics people. They can’t profit from it without it infecting everything.
What it actually is being used as is a Maxwell’s Demon. It must be stopped.

Robert Kingett

This is why I never follow any journalist on social media. They don't like it? Too bad. It's only RSS for me. @RealGene @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke

scrottie (he/him/them)

@JoBlakely @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson
Scott, it seems like you are making yourself crystal clear.
Having values is not an "ideological purity test". Attacking having values as "ideological purity test" is itself a value -- a fascist one.
Do we need to make Fedi a safe place for vitamin hucksters? For horrible cults?
Do you understand the idea that some things are *toxic* to communities?
https://webcomicname.com/post/185588404109 , over and over again.
No one owES fascists a platform.
Again...
NO ONE OWES FASCISTS A PLATFORM.
This is the only place that Gates and Musks lackies aren't running. We like this way.
I know there's a lot of discussion of badjacketing and that discussion is valid, but people are often right when calling this out, and groups often get it right, and at this point, it's pretty blatant, even if you personally cannot see it.
If you feel more comfortable on Bluesky otoh, please feel free to step off.

Jakenke

@JoBlakely @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson

I agree with you in theory, I wish all the nations of the world could all just get together and cooperate on mutually beneficial solutions. It’s the obvious rational route for everyone. But our best attempt at doing so (COP) has been a near total failure. Ideal solutions are useless without political will.

Jo - pièce de résistance

@Jakenke
All theory, no praxis makes castles in the air, illusions & Ponzi schemes, bubbles, and structures without integrity doomed to fail. They lack substance, are all facade.

@danirabbit @scottjenson

Don't Sweat The Technique ✊

@scrottie
Also, no one is denying anyone the right to set up their own cryptofascist or ai-shilling server. Just no-one can be forced to federate with it. There is free speech, but listening is also optional
@JoBlakely @xgranade @danirabbit @scottjenson

tangerine_sedge

@scottjenson @dalias @pmdj Scott - thanks for initiating this conversation, it's been interesting to follow and reading/understanding everyone elses viewpoint.

I think you're under-estimating the culture of this place and what drives people here. People have specifically chosen Mastodon precisely because it's not the other places. I'm here because I'm tired of low-quality click-engagement articles/links and actually want to engage with 'real' humans who are here because they want to be here and not because they're trying to sell me something (even if that's only a clickthrough).

Samwise -> Hard Difficulty

@scottjenson @codinghorror So when you compared your struggle to the struggle of POC you were baiting on purpose to poke the bear.

Eggs now in different baskets.

@scottjenson @kcarruthers @CptSuperlative @RealGene Which Is good right?

It is a clear indication of "engagement" from Fediverse users.

Something you suggested (that other people thought) was lacking?

Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪

@sloanlance @bp @scottjenson the fun thing is: it is even not the German flag .

International House of Death Rays

@danirabbit @scottjenson you are asking for an echo chamber. You are asking for this roundly hated bullshit that is being violently imposed on us to be prioritized by the individual poor bastards - like myself - running elephant network instances in the same manner as it is on fascist shitholes like Twitter

Mike Johnston

@scottjenson @carnage4life if I pretend I can unpack everyone's brains lol I think the problem with a take like this is that two people doing basically the same thing might have wildly different experiences on Mastodon. Maybe because of the tech, federation, time of posts, reach, luck, who knows. Partially, I also feel like it's because here no one is trying to "social media" the "right way" if that makes sense. On other platforms there is a lot more conformity as people try to fit in and get followers and be popular getting likes etc. here people don't care as much?