Political discourse

Another centrist who thinks the left just doesn’t get it.

The way finitebanjo defines it though, as anyone who rightly opposes US imperialism as being a tankie, is what I’m arguing against. I’m arguing against conveniently abstracted generalization of messy histories that support a very very narrow view, which defines most leftists as “evil tankies.”

I’m arguing against any views, coming from tankies or progressive liberals, that statically categorize historical and political relations, which are inherently dynamic and change over time. I’m arguing against sacrificing deep understanding at the altar of some slanderous and IMO dangerous mischaracterization of most leftists.

I think its possible that you, as someone who seems to feel comfortable using the term tankie, don’t understand the way it warps actual political discourse away from radical but sometimes correct positions, and toward ineffectual online camps. I’m aware of the kind of weird super online left that takes up their own ignorant campist positions and defends them with like memes. Sometimes these people even crop up in actual organizing and can wreak havok if they get control, I can think of a few examples of real life “tankies” causing great harm to our movements. But it is very rare.

In fact if you ever meet like a “Stalinist” or as you might call them, “tankie”, from a third world country, they are completely unlike the white western online tankie that you’re referring to. They have certain questionable views which the synthetic online tankies try to copy, but their practical activity, their organizing work, is incredibly serious, well intentioned, effective and engages actual exploited people in a revolutionary way.

But the way Tankie gets defined sometimes, it seems like anyone who reads and understands Lenin is a trump supporter, which is totally wrong, but exactly how I would describe finitebanjo’s polemics. This would put people like Paulo Friere in the category of tankie because he has certain third worldist sensibilites despite being probably the greatest humanist theorist since Marx himself. Considering that this is an author and educator often taught in even christian seminary schools, as well as many secular advanced degree programs, and also studied seriously by every left tendency, the definition of tankie often completely misses the mark.

Maybe I am mis-stating that point a little, I don’t know what is in peoples hearts when they use the term. But as someone who is definitely active on the communist left and not a tankie, even anti-tankie peeps don’t call me that, that is how it looks to me. The way that I avoid becoming a tankie is by studying, reflecting and applying theory in a practical way. Arguing that I am misunderstanding the situation seems to refute everything that makes me a principled leftist. So I have a hard time with your characterization of my arguments.

But sometimes history comes along and says “too bad.” There is no historical precedent for fascism or extreme wealth inequality being corrected by electoral politics.

If you’re able to comfortably sit on the fence, recognize two facts: One, that’s a position of entitlement (Plenty of people are already having their lives destroyed by what’s happening). Two, being passive is choosing to allow authoritarianism to win.

To reiterate, I’m not a Tankie. I don’t whitewash the heinous history of revolutions, upheaval, and failed government systems. And I am positive that I’m screaming into the void. In every historical example I’ve studied, the comfortable middle class eventually sides with elite authority and not the peasants. And the peasants always lose. But the alternative is too awful to surrender to. Centralized techno-fascism and eventual catastrophic conflict with China are what’s in-store.

I’m not gonna stop calling fascists fascists because it hurts feelings or harms them, nor am I going to stop calling out tankies for being tankies.

I hope this helps clarify.

Take care

The left is not calling for a Civil War. They’re demanding basic human rights for everyone, and the capitalists have made it clear they’d rather kill everyone.

If you feel equally threatened by the left and the right, it’s because you support fascism. You just prefer a lighter flavor of it that you benefit from.

Hang in there, keep fighting

I don’t believe that’s true. I’m not aware of any revolution the peasants lost.

“Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

The right is sill around. They just have a ‘D’ next to their name.

Ah yeah sure, taxing the rich, removing money from politics, making healthcare and bodily autonomy a human right, all such right ideals. /sarcasm

Dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean total rule by one dude named proletariat, it means total rule by the people.

Tankies want a vanguard of the best brightest to lead and educate the proletariat into a new “socialist” future. Conveniently, the best and brightest happens to be them and their homies.

They also just so happen to have a new vision of socialist utopianism of you working in a sweat shop for 14 hours a day and eating rationed food while they sip fine wines and write bullshit very online mutants will recite as scripture in the future.

The fuck are you babbling

Absolutely. There are numerous strains of leftist philosophy that are anti-authoritarian.

“I think we need a mixture of both!”, he shouts while be loaded into a cattle car.

Right of what?

You’re not wrong. Many of them are exposed to propaganda on TikTok and it is a growing issue. Espionage is being done to divide the left and consolidate the right. Just because it’s not as noticeable as the propaganda from the right doesn’t mean that it’s not having subtle effects. If it gets people to disengage or not look out for their best interests then it is effective. All this to say, there is a way to bring about positive change and that has to do with being involved locally.

Instead of listening to anticommunists from a century ago, why don’t we compare what communists have done in China over 50 years to their neighbor, India? One of those countries exports food for a profit while the children of the laborers who picked that food suffer from malnutrition. Or why don’t we look at life expectancy in Cuba today and before the revolution. You can even compare Cuba to their capitalist ruled neighbors.

To quote Michael Parenti:

If Communists, if we Leftists, if we Marxists, if we revolutionaries, if we progressives, if we—all we want is to hunger for power, then why do we side with the powerless? Then why don’t we toady up to power? Why don’t we take the road of the Henry Kissingers and the Patrick—Daniel Patrick Moynihans and the Zbigniew Brzezinskis and the Eugene V. Rostows and the McGeorge Bundys, who toady up and mouth for power? When Henry Kissinger was made National Security Advisor for Richard Nixon, Nelson Rockefeller gave him fifty-thousand bucks as a going-away present.

Ah yes, if you oppose capitalism too much, you just start hating minorities. That’s just horseshoe theory. They wouldn’t teach it in schools if it wasn’t true.

Definitely don’t come to China, Vietnam, or Cuba and check for yourself, just trust your government.

Honestly wouldn’t go there if you paid me, but I respect the journalists brave enough to do so.

wouldn’t go there if you paid me

Why? Vietnam is beautiful, experiencing towns built around bikes instead of cars and being able to buy good meal for 1.20 USD is good for your soul. China is the most developed country in the world right now, and I’m planning to go back in a month or so. I haven’t been, but I hear Cuba has lovely beaches and rum.

Were you under the impression these places were dangerous?