Political discourse

I mean a lot of people don’t want to have their way of life userped by these radical idiots. One side is calling for a civil war and the other side is effectively campaigning for concentration camps. Normal people don’t want to engage with either brand of insanity. They just want to go to work and go home, spend time with their family.

The way finitebanjo defines it though, as anyone who rightly opposes US imperialism as being a tankie, is what I’m arguing against. I’m arguing against conveniently abstracted generalization of messy histories that support a very very narrow view, which defines most leftists as “evil tankies.”

I’m arguing against any views, coming from tankies or progressive liberals, that statically categorize historical and political relations, which are inherently dynamic and change over time. I’m arguing against sacrificing deep understanding at the altar of some slanderous and IMO dangerous mischaracterization of most leftists.

I think its possible that you, as someone who seems to feel comfortable using the term tankie, don’t understand the way it warps actual political discourse away from radical but sometimes correct positions, and toward ineffectual online camps. I’m aware of the kind of weird super online left that takes up their own ignorant campist positions and defends them with like memes. Sometimes these people even crop up in actual organizing and can wreak havok if they get control, I can think of a few examples of real life “tankies” causing great harm to our movements. But it is very rare.

In fact if you ever meet like a “Stalinist” or as you might call them, “tankie”, from a third world country, they are completely unlike the white western online tankie that you’re referring to. They have certain questionable views which the synthetic online tankies try to copy, but their practical activity, their organizing work, is incredibly serious, well intentioned, effective and engages actual exploited people in a revolutionary way.

But the way Tankie gets defined sometimes, it seems like anyone who reads and understands Lenin is a trump supporter, which is totally wrong, but exactly how I would describe finitebanjo’s polemics. This would put people like Paulo Friere in the category of tankie because he has certain third worldist sensibilites despite being probably the greatest humanist theorist since Marx himself. Considering that this is an author and educator often taught in even christian seminary schools, as well as many secular advanced degree programs, and also studied seriously by every left tendency, the definition of tankie often completely misses the mark.

Maybe I am mis-stating that point a little, I don’t know what is in peoples hearts when they use the term. But as someone who is definitely active on the communist left and not a tankie, even anti-tankie peeps don’t call me that, that is how it looks to me. The way that I avoid becoming a tankie is by studying, reflecting and applying theory in a practical way. Arguing that I am misunderstanding the situation seems to refute everything that makes me a principled leftist. So I have a hard time with your characterization of my arguments.

I mean a lot of people don’t want to have their way of life userped by these radical idiots. One side is calling for a civil war and the other side is effectively campaigning for concentration camps. Normal people don’t want to engage with either brand of insanity. They just want to go to work and go home, spend time with their family.

I’m not gonna stop calling fascists fascists because it hurts feelings or harms them, nor am I going to stop calling out tankies for being tankies.

I hope this helps clarify.

Take care

But sometimes history comes along and says “too bad.” There is no historical precedent for fascism or extreme wealth inequality being corrected by electoral politics.

If you’re able to comfortably sit on the fence, recognize two facts: One, that’s a position of entitlement (Plenty of people are already having their lives destroyed by what’s happening). Two, being passive is choosing to allow authoritarianism to win.

To reiterate, I’m not a Tankie. I don’t whitewash the heinous history of revolutions, upheaval, and failed government systems. And I am positive that I’m screaming into the void. In every historical example I’ve studied, the comfortable middle class eventually sides with elite authority and not the peasants. And the peasants always lose. But the alternative is too awful to surrender to. Centralized techno-fascism and eventual catastrophic conflict with China are what’s in-store.

I mean a lot of people don’t want to have their way of life userped by these radical idiots. One side is calling for a civil war and the other side is effectively campaigning for concentration camps. Normal people don’t want to engage with either brand of insanity. They just want to go to work and go home, spend time with their family.

I wouldn’t say so, I’m a consequentialist so when I see a pedophile felon in the white house removing the 14th amendment while not a single GOP congressman opposes him, I feel like the entirety of the US right is effectively gone and only the far right remains.

The right is sill around. They just have a ‘D’ next to their name.

They both support Donald Trump, for example.

lmao what?

They both enable ethnostates to send minorities to camps.

lmao what?

They believe in a nation ruled by one supreme absolute leader.

Dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean total rule by one dude named proletariat, it means total rule by the people.

Thanks for the grasroots money, this small group is actually very loud. The loudest of them all. They maintain the illusion that communism is when you like Russia, and that’s their entire purpose

Can I be a leftist without being a tankie then?

Liberals perceive criticism for enabling the right and opposing the left at every opportunity as left in-fighting.

The left identifies the liberals as part of the right.

They run TikTok among many other CCP funded operations, I wouldn’t disregard them personally.

Dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean total rule by one dude named proletariat, it means total rule by the people.

Tankies want a vanguard of the best brightest to lead and educate the proletariat into a new “socialist” future. Conveniently, the best and brightest happens to be them and their homies.

They also just so happen to have a new vision of socialist utopianism of you working in a sweat shop for 14 hours a day and eating rationed food while they sip fine wines and write bullshit very online mutants will recite as scripture in the future.

Thank you for being a perfect example of the point I was making, enjoy your dead minorities and your roads paved in the blood of the innocent.

Ah yes, if you oppose capitalism too much, you just start hating minorities. That’s just horseshoe theory. They wouldn’t teach it in schools if it wasn’t true.

Definitely don’t come to China, Vietnam, or Cuba and check for yourself, just trust your government.

Honestly wouldn’t go there if you paid me, but I respect the journalists brave enough to do so.

wouldn’t go there if you paid me

Why? Vietnam is beautiful, experiencing towns built around bikes instead of cars and being able to buy good meal for 1.20 USD is good for your soul. China is the most developed country in the world right now, and I’m planning to go back in a month or so. I haven’t been, but I hear Cuba has lovely beaches and rum.

Were you under the impression these places were dangerous?

It’s a single party autocracy with a very bloody history involving the west. Even if being abducted, tortured, and buried in an unmarked grave is the exception to the rule, it’s still a hell of a lot more likely than a progressive nation.