I Got This Right, Right?

~~Kirk was definitionally a fascist.

As for what the shooter is, I’m sure time will tell. I don’t see a need to jump to conclusions on that yet.~~

Edit: duplicate post due to lag. Please ignore

Kirk was definitionally a fascist.

As for what the shooter is, I’m sure time will tell. I don’t see a need to jump to conclusions on that yet.

“I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.”

Robinson’s mother explained that over the last year or so, Robinson had become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro–gay and trans–rights oriented. She stated that Robinson began to date his roommate, a biological male who was transitioning genders. This resulted in several discussions with family members, especially between Robinson and his father, who had very different political views.

You people are fucking dipshits.

Nice examples provided to illustrate your point.

Right. MAGA never go for self-preservation against rightwing retaliation.

Put the pieces together. Aside from what I already said:

-Estranged from right wing family

-Dating a transwoman

-Struggled with gender identity

-Complaining about hatred

None of these things are characteristic of the right.

Balance that against an entire life of rightwing indoctrination. That’s a rightwing kid with mental issues.

I will not concede this bullshit talking point that “the left” did this when we all have eyes.

Who’s somebody on the right that’s not a fascist in your view? The craziest thing is that people are calling him a Nazi when one of the biggest goals of his organization was to stake a big tent and prevent people from being radicalized. He was a “constitutionalist” milquetoast conservative. With him being killed now his audience will certainly go further right.

oh sure, I’m not talking about this case obviously

I was thinking about things like epstein files not being made public and left accusing right, and right accusing left

Mass surveillance, facism, war… that happened under obama now happens with trump

Don’t have examples on left blaming right when it happens though, I was mainly saying that each side will blame the other for things they have done too, but obviously I missed the point of this post because that’s clearly not it. I also believe I wanted to say that one side is quick to accuse the other without real evidence, and assumes that the other one is responsible when it’s not that simple.

after re-reading my comment I feel dumb, I’ll strike the text. Sorry.

This means that liking trans women doesn’t automatically mean you’re attracted to men, so calling it gay is an oversimplification of how attraction works.

I get it. Calling it hetero would seem like an oversimplification as well though. We need more words!

Attraction isn’t really exclusively based on sex, though

I get it, but making it solely based on gender isn’t a good idea as well I believe. Doesn’t seem specific enough. Also, trans women and trans men don’t necessarily change physically, right? They can still look like their birth gender, that’s what’s throwing me off I believe.

That is kinda a strange way to counter my point that he is definitionally a fascist. Are you saying that if enough people are fascist then the none of them are?

I am saying that the rhetoric that Kirk used fits the definition of fascist rhetoric. If everyone in the world meets that definition, then everyone in the world is fascist. That’s how definitions work.

Balance that against an entire life of rightwing indoctrination.

You are describing probably 80% of liberals. Political opinion is not genetic.

Killing someone for “spreading hate” is not a right wing phenomenon.

Lol. That’s a hell of a stretch. You’re welcome to keep pushing this line while I roll my eyes and ignore it.

Kirk believed in a constitutional republic and Presidential elections. He was also, due to being a Christian, positionally anti-LGBT but not antagonistic to them. This position is hardly something new. He welcomed them into his movement and has plenty of gay fans. He held classically right wing positions which some may find objectionable but nonetheless cling fervently to a liberal world order. Fascism is inherently anti-liberal.

what kind/amount of evidence would it take for you to believe that the shooter was either not right wing, or had left wing ideals?

I didn’t imply the entire right was fascist. I think a lot of them are. But I also think a lot of them aren’t. I also think some lefties are fascists. I think some liberals are fascists. I think some black people are fascist. I think some Jewish people are fascist. I think some Palestinians are fascist. Name a group of people, I guarantee you some percentage of them are fascist. It’s an easy ideology to fall into. It feels comfortable.

I’ll write this again in case you missed it the first time. Fascism has a definition. There are criteria to categorize. What is fascist’s behavior, What are fascist beliefs, what is fascist ideology.

You want so badly for me to be some crazy leftist who calls everyone a fascists without cause. But I’m sorry, I’m not. I’m intentionally calling Kirk a fascist. Because he meets the definition. I’m not saying it hatefully, I’m not saying it with emotion. It’s just 1+1=2. The sky is blue. The grass is green. Kirk is a fascist.

What is the definition you are using?

Actual evidence, not hearsay because (checks notes) his MAGA family said he was a leftist.

I mean yeah, stigmatizing an entire group of people over their shared mental illnesses, illnesses usually brought on by severe childhood neglect and trauma, just because there are there are vile public figures or people you may know personally that also fit the description definitely rubs me the wrong way.

Don’t get me wrong, there are loads of horrible people with cluster b disorders, just like there are loads without. The bad ones should absolutely be called out for their shitty behaviors, but the readiness to villainize people over a general description doesn’t help anything but your own ego and only ostracizes the ones that actually do take accountability.

I’m sure you could guess but I have a cluster b disorder myself (bpd) and the way the media portrays us, doctors brush off and ignore us seeking help, and the way people just LOVE to group all of us in with the worst of them is draining and damaging to those of us who genuinely just want help, try to do good for those around them, and are just trying to live their lives in peace.

Hatred is hatred, replace the words “cluster b” with “trans folk” or “black people” and you might see what I’m talking about. Instead of beating down on these shit politicians for having mental illnesses, maybe beat down on them for being the fascists they are.

I missed some of your points because I made bad assumptions and overlooked some things.

I’m not surprised that at some point in time he would say he was pro-liberal. But the positions he argued for were in support of fascism. He didn’t other just gay people. He othered Muslims. He has brought up the Jewish question. He is a fan of centralizing power. Not that centralizing a power by itself would be a strong indicator of fascism. You have to take a look at the big picture.

There are several statistical lies that he keeps repeating to maintain his position. Someone is popular and is well known as Kirk would surely have people able to quietly correct him on some of these things. Yet he keeps repeating them. The outcome of this rhetoric is to empower fascists. He very likely knew that.

Now I’m not saying he was rubbing together his hands and whispering to himself “good good”. I think he just followed the money.