Based and Red Pilled Gigachad, many such cases 😔

No, you double posted this comment and so I double posted my response. Yikes

You know America is cooked when even liberals are coming up with grand conspiricy theories to blame all of the countries problems on sinister forigners. Any evidence that “russia is behind most of the propaganda, and they do it to both sides too”? Of course not, but it feels right, because it explains the current state of things while still maintaining American exceptionalism, so that’s good enough.

Define “strawman” and define “paraphrasing.”

Strawman: Misrepresenting someones point as a different, less strong, point.
Paraphrasing: Expressing the same concept in different wording.

Hence why I was paraphrasing, because I didn’t misrepresent your point.

Say something negative about Putin.

Are you going to do this on every post now? Do you need me to recite the pledge of allegiance every post too? Say something negative about Barack Obama.

The government moderates it

Ok. So it’s information control by the government.

Propaganda WARFARE is new, mostly online, and hasn’t been used like this before ~2016.

Lol. Yeah ok. I’m not sure who you’re expecting is going to take seriously the idea that propaganda campaigns weren’t invented until decades after the cold war.

Capitalism is inherently fascist, see The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal World Order by Gerstle. It cannot be truly democratic due to its inherent fascism, and part of that is the relentless propaganda used during capitalism via commercials, media, etc to sway people from freely consenting and critically thinking.

No disagreement here; but surely you realize this also means that control of information by a capitalist government isn’t the solution.

Propaganda warfare is literally fascism, made by fascists, to spread fascism.

Just because fascists use propaganda doesn’t’ mean that they invented it or only they use it.

Hey can you say something negative about Putin?

Wow, so you’re not just going to ask this every post, you’re going to ask it multiple times per post. Do you need me to sign a loyalty pledge too? Swear under oath that I am not and have never been a member of the communist party?

BRICS literal stated purpose is western currency collapse, and they formed a coalition around this stated purpose.

Listen mate, nobody is going to take seriously the argument that trying to form a rival currency bloc to the US dollar is literal warfare except for the most insane fascists.

Russia is a state run by a dictator who is having them do this,

Oh, so Russia secretly controls India and China now too! Fucking Qanon tier shit.

It isn’t “any” story, it is literally about their online warfare.

Well that’s just straight up lying; https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62465043 this has nothing to do with online warfare, liar.

I even mentioned Dubai and BRICS as you noted, so you contradict yourself here that I say only Russia is behind anything anyway.

You mean the thing you just said was controlled by Russia?

Please learn a basic good faith argument

Once paragraph later:

You can’t criticize Putin? Lol you ARE a bot.

You can’t criticize Obama? Lol you ARE a bot!

Not least because you haven’t been able to add to the discussion at all like a normal person.

Lol. OK. Apparently “normal” means “endlessly ignoring actual arguments and just screeching ‘RUSSIAN BOT!’ at anyone who disagrees.”

Lmfao it isn’t xenophobia to stand up to a nation or nations actively attacking you with huge military campaigns for millions of dollars. It isnt xenophobia to criticize a foreign government engaging in massive human rights abuses including slavery.

OK? That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because that’s not what we were talking about. Unless you’re just deliberately trying to motte-and-bailly out of what you said.

Where have I stated American exceptionalism even once?

The bit where you assume that none of America’s problems could be domestic, they’re all the result of a grand conspiracy by evil foreigners.

Where have I stated anything McCarthyism related? Do you think modern Russia is communist? Do you think Putin is communist?

Lol, so accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a secret Russian agent is fine so long as you don’t also call them a communist? Fuck off, you’re being disingenuous and you know; constantly blaming everything on massive infiltration by Russian agents, including attacking all dissent by accusing them of being Russian agents, is McCarthyism regardless of whether Russia is communist.

Can you say anything negative about Putin?

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

No shit, I don’t support the US doing this shit either.

Sure you do, by claiming that when America does it, it’s secretively Russia’s fault, and anyone who criticizes the US for it is secretly Russian.

THE LARGEST MOST COMMONLY WATCHED BEST FUNDED MEDIA OUTLET ISNT MAINSTREAM MEDIA!!1!

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals

https://apnews.com/article/russian-interference-presidential-election-influencers-trump-999435273dd39edf7468c6aa34fad5dd

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/08/24/breitbart-other-alt-right-websites-darlings-russian-propaganda-effort/598258001/

Just some quick bigger stories. There are others as well.

So 80% of lemmy.ml users?

And if you think “haha stupid MAGAs” falling for propaganda, I got news for you buddy, you’ve fallen for it too.

Good thing you’re immune, though. Now tell me more about how all of the West’s problems are actually because of a vast conspiracy theory of evil foreigners.

The actual quote:

Russia has engaged in MASSIVE MASSIVE online warfare, including on Lemmy (eg, you, maybe).

Including on Lemmy means they have a masive campaign and that includes some bots on Lemmy. Learn to read what is written. Stop strawmanning. Stop pretending you can mind read - that’s also a psychiatric symptom btw.

Asking if you are a bot because you are parroting pro-Russian talking points when faced with other evidence is not “substanceless” personal attacks lol.

Putin is an outright fascist.

BRICS, keep up. This was established numerous comments ago.

What claim? The claim YOU randomly invented because you strawman so much? You yourself did not disagree that there’s Russian propaganda on Lemmy.

See, you’ve developed as completely circular, unfalsifiable, reasoning: Russians are behind everything bad - therefore everything bad is Russian, proving that everything bad is from Russia. Once you’ve decided that everything you disagree with is “a Russian talking point” and everyone who disagrees with you is “a Russian puppet” by definition, then yes, everything bad is because of Russian.

No, this isn’t what I said. Strawman. You know I didn’t say it, because I didn’t use those words, I used other words because they specifically conveyed my actual meaning, which is not the above.

it’s literally saying that all of your country’s domestic problems are secretly the fault of foreign enemies.

No, this isn’t what I said. Strawman. You know I didn’t say it, because I didn’t use those words, I used other words because they specifically conveyed my actual meaning, which is not the above.

then the USA has been actively attacking the entire human race, including the Russian federation, for decades, and Russia is actually normal and brave for standing up to you. But it doesnt’ count as that, you’re just redefining words.

Yes, the USA has been and is fascist too, all capitalist governments are inherently fascist, this has already been explained to you. This includes Russia too, both countries are fascist. Neither are brave or good for being fascist warmongers and both used the other as a scapegoat to rid themselves of undesirables.

I’m not “redefining words,” projection on your part.

People are literally dying, a physical attack, from this propaganda. Measles outbreaks, people eating bad food, gun violence, etc etc. Their deaths are as valid as if they’d been shot directly.

not just claiming that every single domestic problem is actually part of a foreign conspiracy. By your reasoning here, Nazi Germany wouldn’t have been xenophobic for saying the Judeo-Boleshoviks were attacking them.

Strawman again.

Damn, now even trying to challenge the global dominance of the US dollar is warfare. Seems like you just consider anything opposed to the Glorious light of the Exceptional USA as ontologically evil. Just to be clear; this is the most insanely fascistic shit I have seen in a long time. Even Zionists don’t go this far

Yeah, okay, with this it is clear you’re having a bad mental health episode. I don’t care to be your punching bag for your delusions, mania, and/or psychosis which I’ve politely labeled strawmans and mindreading up to now. The “talking like Qanon” thing is clearly projection on your part. Much of what you said is nonsensical or just wrong, you’ve been informed of that and are unable to adjust or have a good faith argument at any level. You have failed in every comment to actually read the actual words I say and respond to the actual words I say. I may as well not be here lol, and any readers have the info they may want anyway.

I have no issue with reducing the global power of the USD and I am sympathetic to why other countries would do it. However, they do not care to do it gently, causing death, which needs to be addressed locally starting with acknowledging it.

The rest - yeah, I’m sure the evil boogeyman narrative your brain invented towards me is really insanely fascist and evil lol. You are a good creative writer and make very spooky characters with very spooky buzzwords. It isn’t me because I didn’t say anything you claim was said, but that other guy you’ve invented is a really scary guy for sure. You are doing great arguing against them and defeating them. They are just so evil.

1 - where did I say I’m immune?

2 - are you ignoring the fact that Russia openly admits to doing this?

Gentlemen, we interfered, we interfere, and we will interfere … Carefully, precisely, surgically, and in our own way, as we know how. During our pinpoint operations, we will remove both kidneys and the liver at once.

Yevgeny Prigozhin founder of the largest Russian troll farm

“I didn’t say I’m immune to propaganda! It’s just the propaganda I believe happens to be true! See, here’s an unsourced quote that doesn’t contain any concrete claims but certainly sounds sinister!”

Hehe .ml user being defensive

Lol, I just noticed you’re an ML. No wonder you’re desperate to deny anything bad ever came out of Russia. Scuttle back to your tankie echo chamber.

I can see you’re having a worsening of your mental health event, I’m done talking to you. Have fun with your creative writing exercise!

I can see you’re having a worsening of your mental health event, I’m done talking to you. Have fun with your creative writing exercise!

A strawman is taking someone’s genuine argument and then distorting or misrepresenting it to make it easier to attack. A strawman argument isn’t valid and it isn’t paraphrasing. Generally when people paraphrase in good faith, they will ask if they said the paraphrase correctly and will correct themselves if it is incorrect.

They cannot remove just anything, they have to have a legal basis to do so and can be sued, less government control than now.

I said propaganda warfare, meaning online propaganda warfare that started in 2016, a new type of warfare. Obviously.

Again, it is less control than what exists presently already via private companies that would still exist later anyway. We still can advocate for progress even within capitalism and fascism, that’s how we dig out of both.

Propaganda warfare in my comment is specifically referencing online warfare since 2016, and it is absolutely Putin’s baby.

You did slightly better on this comment in terms of nonsensical spewing, nice

Damn, you really have nothing except ad hominems. Guess what: the letters following my username in no way affect whether I’m right or not.

Hello!
First up, I just want to say that you’re right. Russia has committed crimes. So, let’s at least understand why that happened, so we don’t go around like hypocrites pointing out maga for believing Russian propaganda, while you and I believe western propaganda.

In 1991, after the illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the USSR through neo-liberal shock therapy against the overwhelming majority of the population, fifteen states, which had not previously existed as fully independent countries in the modern, internationally recognized sense, were born. Of which, Ukraine.

Unsurprisingly, when you go from a planned economy to a market economy and the state start rapidly selling assets, the result is inflation, corruption, and instability.

Additionally, Ukraine’s geopolitical location keeps it interesting for western imperial interests. Being the second largest country in Europe, bordering both NATO, Russia, and the further Eastern Block, and a transit country for 2/3 of Europe’s natural gas from Russia, it of course plays a big role in the regions’ stability. Just interfering in the transit of Russian natural gas is enough to make Russia, a great enemy of NATO, suffer catastrophic economic hardships.

Given all those reasons and access to the black sea, and that’s how the west convinced Ukraine to trade in its nuclear arsenal for “security assurances” in 1994.

Trying to balance a relationship with both Russia and the West all the while the country faces massive inflation killing living standards and eroding public trust in the government, leading to constant leadership changes, but its not enough to explain the initial western intervention in Ukraine.

Since the beginning, NATO has been looking to get its hands dirty in Ukraine, making non-meaningful peace deals to “strengthen relationships”. A 2008 poll shows that 55% of Ukrainians straight-up opposed joining NATO and only 20% were in favor.

In a Russia-Ukraine-USA agreement, Ukraine was compensated with millions by the USA and low-enriched uranium fuel rods by Russia in exchange for it completely dismantling its nuclear powers. US Aid was given to Ukraine from the beginning. However, while this was crucial in the beginning, it did not come without a price. The US has claimed as a matter of foreign policy that “For a stable and secure Ukraine is essential for a stable and secure Europe” through the establishment of the “Vice Presidency of the European and Euro-Atlantic Integration in Ukraine”, which has made Ukraine’s pro-western stance clear since. This was even reinforced by constitutional amendments in 2019, embedding NATO and EU membership as "strategic goals to actively pursue’'.

In 2004, “The Orange Revolution” marked by widespread protests and reforms. As accusations of election fraud was made (hmm sounds familiar) and that led to new elections. That is true, but from the beginning, the organization of the protest is suspiciously too organized as if they were receiving some kind of help. Until this moment, the US promoted over 65 million dollars to “promote democracy in Ukraine” mainly through organizations like freedom house and national endownment, which had, big surprise, agitated many of the youth by organizing rock concerts and setting up posters all over. In the next so-called revolution, Ukrainians protested against the association agreement to reject closer ties with the EU to balance ties with Russia. The narrative was told that riot police and the such were deployed and even shot protesters. What is left out of this conversation is the involvement of far-right groups Свобода. Although they were a minority, they had a large backing, resources, and organization. They were widely occupying government building especially in western Ukraine. The EU and the US staged participation in the protests, actively supported the far-right reactionaries, and a later leaked phone-call reveals US efforts to influence the formation of a post Euoropia government. Poland also played a big role through funding and pressuring the EU to integrate Ukraine into so-called “European norms”. Image the inverse. Imagine Russia actively funding and supporting anti-government uprisings in lets say Mexico to match its interests in weakening the USA. Imagine a leaked phone call with Putin practically choosing the next leaders of Mexico some even being Russian themselves. Just for a second, think about all this and forget the US exceptionalism. Before moving on, its important to mention that Russia wasnt just standing by all this time. Russia conducted covert and overt operations in the presidency and later in Crimea and Romas. Don’t mistake me for being a supporter of Russia. I hate it with all my heart as much as you do, but situations like these need nuance.

Since the 1990s Russia has seen western intervention in Ukraine as a direct threat and was its reasoning for invading Crimea. This constant push and pull between the west and Russia caused the Ukrainians to suffer under a collapsing country being influenced by foreign entities. Even with all that, in 2014, Ukraine took a massive 17 billion dollar lone from the IMF and of course, the IMF implemented neo-liberal policies further ruining life and interest continues to rise so high to the point of insanity. This also further strengthened the already present and powerful Ukrainian oligarchs by major tax cuts yet the payroll tax remained at 50% placing even more burden onto the working class.

With all this in mind, it should be very clear that the policy towards Ukraine and Russia throughout the previous decades has produced outcomes opposite to the stated goals. The US says it views the strategic positioning of Ukraine as a buffer state. It’s not like this is a surprise. Even back in 2008, CIA director William when he was serving as the US ambassador to Russia stated “Ukranian entry to NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin)… [it is] a direct challenge to Russian interests…”. Another show of this is the Russian progress made, while the US was debating sending more money to Ukraine. Ukraine is heavily dependent on western weapons and supplies and can not survive on its own. Yet, peace deals are ignored for the continuation of Western imperial interests at the expense of Ukraine, which needs peace negotiations not continued war and western intervention. Defense secretary Lloyd Austin explicitly stated “The US goal in Ukrain was to see Russia weakened due to the war”, which is not the case at all and the lack of peace deals and continued western intervention not only is making Ukrainian lives more shit than they already were before the war, but also resulting in more and more countries being involved, potentially leading to WW3 just for some petty western interests.

I truly hope the best for Ukrainians and Russians impacted by this war and hope all of this ends.