I figured this out during the pandemic
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It’s crazy to me that the people around me would rather “accidentally” harm someone that doesn’t deserve it than accidentally help someone that might not deserve it
I like this. Well said.
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People follow their emotions. It feels bad for a poor person to get a “handout”, and it feels good for a “bad” for a bad person to be punished. That’s pretty much it. Multiply it by “my in-group is good and my outgroup is bad”, and you get conservatism.
Notice that it’s a stupid world view. It’s at the level of toddlers.
If we want to change how these people act, we need to reach them on their level. Facts won’t do it. They’re not listening to facts. You need to make them feel good when they do the right thing.
It does feel like being held hostage by a cranky toddler, yes. We have to pander and beg and appease them because they’re too selfish and stupid to realize it would be better for everyone, including them, if they just cooperated.
Can’t we put them in timeout or something?
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You misunderstood what I meant, so I must have communicated badly.
I meant, people who often say “leave me alone” are “libertarian” types who want to benefit from society without contributing as they’re able (with money or labor). Think of the kind of guy who says “leave me alone! I don’t want to pay taxes for some school. I don’t even have kids.” They benefit from public education, but they don’t see it that way, and they’d rather keep that 20% of their paycheck than have a fire department. I wouldn’t call a baby a “freeloader” because they’re not really capable of doing much. It’s when people can contribute but selfishly and self-destructively choose not to that I’m scornful.
In other words, when someone says their politics are “leave me alone” I am very suspicious of their understanding of society. They want the privileges of society without the obligations, typically.
That’s fair, sorry I assumed the worst from the language I used. Weathy Libertarian Freeloaders …i suppose I understand the term being applied to them.
Selfish nihilists is what I call them, values-free economic nihilists.
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I swear to fucking god that it’s not even that; it’s people that care for others, and people that are willfully ignorant that it’s actually pragmatically cheaper and more efficient to care for others than to treat them like shit.
Pandemic as an example : the more you stay indoors and try to stop the spread of the virus, the faster the pandemic ends and the faster YOU can get back to normal. FORGET that it also stops people dying and protects the vulnerable, it’s in YOUR SELFISH INTEREST.
Or having a basic system of social welfare : giving bread to a poor person costs the price of the bread. Having to imprison them, pay for cops, repair of broken things, investigations etc costs more fucking money. even if you hate people and want them to die, it’s fucking CHEAPER FOR YOU.
The Tragedy of the Commons is very tragic and very common.
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There are two types of people in the world. The type of people who try to divide the world into different types of people; and the type of people who don’t.
[-Watsky]
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The Tragedy of the Commons is very tragic and very common.
JustRight.jpg, chef’s kiss.
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don’t even bother having a society
Societies are the mechanism used to pass down historical accounts and ingrain in future generations the value of current cultural practices. The only way you have a functional state is with a current society of people who advocate, educate, and lead us towards its replication and expansion on behalf of future generations.
have them just kill and gang rape everyone they want to, it’s cheaper that way
There’s more to life than its spot price at auction.
Societies are the mechanism used to pass down historical accounts and ingrain in future generations the value of current cultural practices. The only way you have a functional state is with a current society of people who advocate, educate, and lead us towards its replication and expansion on behalf of future generations.
Great job of explaining that with your previous statement. /S
There’s more to life than its spot price at auction.
Not in the society you explained! I’d rather take the pretense away.
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I really don’t know how to convince people they should care about others.
I don’t know how to teach empathy.
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They do care about others, but only the ones they know.
People they don’t know, they don’t care about at all.
That is why when they meet someone of the “others” and they make a connection, they call them “one of the good ones”. The rest of the same group they still don’t care about, just that one person.
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I really don’t know how to convince people they should care about others.
I don’t know how to teach empathy.
You’re taught empathy by empathetic parents.
And we see now a lot of families have a long lineage of cunts.
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Others are willing to give much more, but most people still have limits (for example, being willing to die for a cause is much rarer than people who are willing to go to a peaceful protest)
right, but I’m saying this in the context of things that are literally more beneficial. Dying is not literally more beneficial.
Like it costs $3 to give someone a loaf of bread. It costs $10k or something to shove them in jail for theft.
Yes but then i wouldn’t get to punish anyone, which would make me sad. You didnt consider my feelings as worth more than 3$?
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I don’t care about other people at all. Leave me alone and let me be.
But I also don’t believe that anyone should go homeless or hungry when we have billionaires with plenty of money to share, which is why I refuse to vote republican.
Bottom line is that people annoy me, but I still have empathy.
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1: Those who value human life
2: and those who don’t
It’s kind of the eternal struggle when you think about it
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I don’t care about other people at all. Leave me alone and let me be.
But I also don’t believe that anyone should go homeless or hungry when we have billionaires with plenty of money to share, which is why I refuse to vote republican.
Bottom line is that people annoy me, but I still have empathy.
Hello, fellow empathetic misanthrope (or is that “misanthropic empath”?)
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Add a third category for those who willingly oppress others.
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They do care about others, but only the ones they know.
People they don’t know, they don’t care about at all.
That is why when they meet someone of the “others” and they make a connection, they call them “one of the good ones”. The rest of the same group they still don’t care about, just that one person.
This. Even Hitler liked his dog and I’ve never heard of him abusing his wife. There are for sure psychopaths (or was it sociopaths?) who genuinely don’t care about literally anybody, but you don’t need that condition to massmurder.
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I know that you’re explaining the argument and not actually endorsing it, so this isn’t directed at you:
You know that they just get given food at jail, right? And it’s still your money paying for that. And now those people are literally restricted from participating in society. If we fed them without jailing them, they could hold a job and spend money and provide to their community; instead we are paying for a punishment hotel to house and feed them in isolation. So if you subtract the cost of food from both sides since we’re feeding them either way, you just want to pay a lot of money to make them miserable, and also waive any benefit that society could recoup from having them be fed.
you just want to pay a lot of money to make them miserable, and also waive any benefit that society could recoup from having them be fed.
Pretty much what they want, but some are even worse. There is a phrase “3 hots and a cot” to mean 3 meals and a place to sleep. People like my uncle say it with disgust, as if they shouldn’t be fed, that they’re somehow on an enviable vacation being in prison… They’re so gross…
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Oh there is further division.
There’s also those who understand that they care too much for their own good and try not to.
And then there is those that are good at finding out what others care about and using it against them. -
1: Those who value human life
2: and those who don’t
It’s kind of the eternal struggle when you think about it
It’s :
- Those who value human life and
- Those who $$value$$ human life
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It’s not just about caring for others. They get offended by seeing anybody be a better person in any way, so they want to criminalize being a good person to never feel inferior to others again, without having to actually do anything good themselves.
