Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?
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@wizardponderingorb @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke I have heard that like two dozen times in the last three years, but hey, here we are yet. What a mystery.
@Argyle13 @scottjenson @patrick_h_lauke Yes Scott is sad so this is the one that will *actually* do us in.
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@octothorpe @trisweb @cratermoon @scottjenson @Gargron This. The fake question framed as if not pandering to their "AI" fawning bullshit is "not allowing them to be on fedi" is bad-faith sealioning. If they don't come here because they know folks here don't want to listen to their shit, that's not our problem.
@dalias @octothorpe @trisweb @cratermoon @scottjenson @Gargron Yeah, I don't know what Fedi everyone else has been hanging out on, but there seem to be plenty of "AI" believers on here. I used to follow quite a number of them prior to their going off the LLM deep end. I have to maintain an extensive filter list to avoid having that stuff constantly surfacing in my feed.
This whole thing is just another variant of the tired old "free speech means you have to listen to my crap" argument. -
Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life Scott, if you find it confusing that folks here are unenthusiastic, ask your LLM to explain to you the differences between federated social media and corporate controlled. Create your own server, post all you want, and use hashtags, filters, and block lists.
Your safety is not the issue here, making the comparison to marginalised communities is not apt. Your LLMs can explain it all to you. Get a summary of the replies to learn all the perspectives you're ignoring.
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@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.
Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.
@scottjenson "too many people disagree with me in this place" does not mean "this place must change".
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@scottjenson @CStamp OK, but genuinely why is it a problem for you that "AI journalists" aren't welcome? Why are they owed attention/welcoming eyeballs?
@Veza85UE @scottjenson He just agreed they are not owed anything. People should be allowed to find their audience.
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@scottjenson @CStamp OK, but genuinely why is it a problem for you that "AI journalists" aren't welcome? Why are they owed attention/welcoming eyeballs?
My point is that you should have the feed you want. Follow who you want, block who you want, filter who you want. That is the beauty of the fediverse.
What I'm asking for, and I'm a bit shocked that this is controversial, is a 'bigger tent', I'd like lots of voices to be here. I'm NOT endorsing AI in any way. I'm just using it as an example of something most people don't like that should be allowed here.
That's what a big tent means. Forget AI, I chose it (unwisely) as a foil. If you kick out AI, you can kick out anyone else. That feels like cultural suicide. YOu can hate something but still fight to the death that it has the right to be here.
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@scottjenson Shame on you for invoking "Black Twitter." AI People want their crap to go viral. Black Twitter wanted a community free of bigotry. Delete your account. Comparing "AI People" to other marginal communities by a "Product Strategy Advisor to #Mastodon Core team"... SMDH
Apparently, the "Product Strategy Advisor to #Mastodon Core team" doesn't understand its userbase, Mastodon's nor the fediverse. It's always been about personal choice.
FWIW, nothing is stopping "AI People" from joining Mastodon nor the fedi. Mastodon is part of the fedi, it's another selling point.
If their instance doesn't want them, they can spin an instance on their own.
No one can force a community to be accepted.
@scottjenson It's worthy to note, that in the post you copied and posted as your example, and failed to link, the man said he only comes to Mastodon on Sunday and someone pointed out that people here like to interact with people.
https://oldfriends.live/@dalias@hachyderm.io/116352885568001869
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@flesh @dgodon @Gargron @scottjenson
I think the time spent suggesting this would have been spent better by suggesting Scott not say "This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022" because it's absolutely not.
@adriano@lile.cl @dgodon@mastodon.online @Gargron@mastodon.social @scottjenson@social.coop I'm sure there are enough people willing to tell Scott just how wrong he is.
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@Veza85UE @scottjenson He just agreed they are not owed anything. People should be allowed to find their audience.
@CStamp @scottjenson Who's not allowing "AI journalists" on Mastodon?
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@scottjenson @carnage4life "lukewarm to politics" isn't at all my perception of Mastodon, quite the opposite.
@scottjenson @carnage4life I took 70 posts from "Trending" (so not connected to my preferences) on my Mastodon server and analysed them:
Politics(29):
4 Iran war US pol
10 other US pol
4 Swedish pol
3 Israel&Gaza
2 Hungarian pol
1 German pol
1 UK pol
1 oppression in Russia
1 motonormativity
2 other7 funny
6 ai negative (faked polls, cloning artists, ...)
5 personal
4 fedi/mastodon meta commentary
3 personal requests
3 own art
2 remembering the Holocaust
1 tech
1 tech adjacent9 other
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The short answer seems very strongly to be "it's irrelevant because that's not what people here want"
Mastodon and fedi in general are very much countercultural. Most people who come to these platforms do so to get away from other platforms, many of which are more inclusive of mainstream voices.
So by its very nature, mastodon has a selection bias for people who do not want inclusivity.
also completely overlooking the "you can use two apps" hole in the side of this logic boat
we lose nothing by crowding out the content farmers, because we can just go sign up for content-farm platforms if their bullshit is for some reason important to us. nothing is stopping anyone from using all of these platforms, except good taste
CC: @scottjenson@social.coop @patrick_h_lauke@mastodon.social
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@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.
Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.
@scottjenson @Gargron there’s no one stopping them from having a community. The question is how much do we have to listen to them? A lot of people here are bored with the debate.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life
So somebody wrote a brief statement for each of 3 platforms stating their conclusion about the people on each feel about politics, tech, and AI (without nuance).So from that you conclude that Mastodon is becoming an echo chamber or monoculture, but not the other two?--even though they were also summed up as having a particular attitude toward each topic? Or are you saying, yes the other two are monocultures but Mastodon shouldn't be?
The other problem I see with your conclusion is that you assume his yardstick (# of followers and likes) for measuring how the vast majority of people on each platform feel about the topics is an accurate and reliable way to describe the platforms' overall attitudes and cultures.
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@adriano@lile.cl @dgodon@mastodon.online @Gargron@mastodon.social @scottjenson@social.coop I'm sure there are enough people willing to tell Scott just how wrong he is.
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My point is that you should have the feed you want. Follow who you want, block who you want, filter who you want. That is the beauty of the fediverse.
What I'm asking for, and I'm a bit shocked that this is controversial, is a 'bigger tent', I'd like lots of voices to be here. I'm NOT endorsing AI in any way. I'm just using it as an example of something most people don't like that should be allowed here.
That's what a big tent means. Forget AI, I chose it (unwisely) as a foil. If you kick out AI, you can kick out anyone else. That feels like cultural suicide. YOu can hate something but still fight to the death that it has the right to be here.
@scottjenson @CStamp Who's "kicking out AI"?
"I'm just using it as an example of something most people don't like that should be allowed here."
Who's banning it? How is it not allowed here?
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@scottjenson @CStamp Who's "kicking out AI"?
"I'm just using it as an example of something most people don't like that should be allowed here."
Who's banning it? How is it not allowed here?
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@cratermoon @scottjenson @Gargron nobody has to earn their place on the Fediverse. Access to free and open social networking is a human right. You don't get to gatekeep this network.
@cratermoon @scottjenson @Gargron
The thing with Mastodon that many people aren't used to wrapping their heads around anymore is that you can build your own "small web" community around at topic you care about. You could call these communities echo chambers if you like. At least we decide what we see.
You can take @evan's comment to heart and go create your own Mastodon instance dedicated to AI. That's fine! You can have your friends there and uninterested people can just ignore it.
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@scottjenson @CStamp What does "not welcome" mean? Because that doesn't answer my question. How is AI "not allowed"? Is anybody banning "AI journalists"? Is that why they're "not welcome"?
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@doctormo I don't know but I'd like to sign up immediately.
For what it's worth, I've apologized for the inappropriate comparison.
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