Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
I know people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd like journalists to be here right?
I'm sorry what? Ain't that guy a senior manager at Meta or something??
I mean good for him, whatever, but can you really not distinguish an actual journalist from a random clout-chasing tech bro??
In what universe should I care what how many followers that guy has?? I just don't even get your point (provided that it was made in good faith). -
@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.
Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.
How is that "not allowed"?
My feeling here is: people are more critical of the AI hype, that limits the spreading of AI related content, that is normal, I think.Would you walk into a pub, find that there is not enough car talk in this pub and then declare there's something wrong with that pub?
Maybe, AI topics just don't work quite al well, if not algorithmically amplified?
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@scottjenson @carnage4life "we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!" if they're only coming to see number go up engagement metrics... they may have a hard time. maybe they should come here to, oh i don't know, spread information? have targeted discussions with specific folks (rather than hoping for drive-by engagement)?
@patrick_h_lauke @scottjenson @carnage4life I want journalists. I don't want yet another RSS feed aggregation account.
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
Who is stopping them from joining? My understanding of the fediverse is that anyone can join or create their own server. They might have more problems building a following here, but that's a different thing.
Incidentally, my one experience with an "AI person" was one inciting others to dogpile on my friend for being an "AI bigot." Not exactly an example of a desirable community member.
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@yosh @awfulwoman @scottjenson That's an excellent distinction. Mastodon and the Fediverse feels like a community of humans to me, a social network, like meeting in a café. Not a media outlet for broadcasting one-way.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life
I’m in an echo chamber because i don’t want to AI slop in my feed? You’ve obviously wandered into the wrong social media site. I’m sure $8 and a Twitter handle will get you the engage you crave. -
@scottjenson meanwhile, over on Bluesky, a bunch of large accounts are mocking Mastodon for the presence of content warnings, autistic people, and Germans (not exaggerating even a little bit)
@ricci It really is unfortunate that we can't have more nuanced conversations around these topics. Some people are capable, and I've enjoyed engaging with those, and I have learned quite a bit.
But some people are just plain nasty. Shame.
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No one is defederating anyone. They are just actively swarming against these accounts, telling them to leave, making ad hominem attacks, etc.
Don't believe me? Just read the replies to my post! My point is simple: Mastodon should be a big tent, let in lots of folks and YOU create the feed you want.
I use blocks very liberally: assholes, cruelty, spammers, and also sometimes block folks who just have nothing to add to a conversation..
I have great reservations about AI and follow some folks who are very active using it and appreciate their sharing.
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
the problem is the dude in your example, expects, indeed demands engagement and finds clock bait and shitposts do worse here, so they have to actually work for engagement, which as a social media influencer, because that is all they are when they boast of 'engagement' and 'shitposting' is read and forgotten, he makes no mark, then whines.
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@kevin and that completely misses my point. It's not about 'having an instance" it's about actively going after people you disagree with. Just read the replies I've been getting. I'm being told to leave the fediverse, I'm being called racist, people are making ad hominum attacks, etc.
THAT turns out to be what I'm actually talking about (I didn't realize when I stated but I became the point I was trying to address). We have a culture here that actively attacks others. No about of "making your own instance" protects you from that.
I wonder if this isn't so much a Mastodon problem as a symptom of any left-leaning group that reaches a certain size. Those of us who've been there before are used to it, but to an outsider, the People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front infighting may be a turn-off.
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@scottjenson
wowowo please don't turn things around. AI people are _not_ marginalized, it's the exact opposite. AI people are rich, white, male tech people who see the increase in personal comfort as more important than others' actual life. Those are the people who are _anti-black_. By letting AI people in you are not learning the lessons of the past. You are specifically repeating the mistake, letting racists, sexists, ableists in, pushing away the people who made activitypub what it is today.
Please think better about what "marginalized" actually means -
@cratermoon @evan should everyone who joins mastodon be forced to pass that gauntlet? Who are the gate keepers? There shouldn't be a purity test. Catch the scammers of course, but passing judgement on the quality of someone's thoughts is very dubious
@scottjenson @cratermoon @evan Your entire point sounds rather spoiled tbqh. They’re complaining that nobody is liking what they’re saying and then, instead of having the slightest bit of introspection and maybe considering that maybe they’re saying things that people don’t care for, they are blaming everyone else.
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@scottjenson @carnage4life So no, Mastodon is not bad for sharing and talking about tech, is not good for mainstream "tech". And there is a lot of tech, and quite alive tech, that is not mainstream. This moves here like a ton. And the engagement with other users about a particular issue can last for, like, days.
@scottjenson @carnage4life ah, and for your information, I write about tech for a living, at a specialised spanish media outlet. there are several journalists here posting in Spanish. They are the ones that engage a lot. Others have tried, but as they only wanted this to be a mere loudspeaker for their writing, they didn,t succeed and left.
We don,t necessarily need journalists here. we need people who cares and interact and talk to people. If besides they happen to be journalists, great. -
@CiaraNi @scottjenson yeah this nails it for me. Folks like this want a broadcast medium - that’s not what I’m here for. I could subscribe to an RSS feed if I wanted that.
@awfulwoman @CiaraNi @scottjenson I also suspect this guy simply treats engagement as number go up, and has no idea how much of it is bots.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life Seems like the biggest problem is that the posts are boring. I did 3 full page scrolls and found nothing interesting. "A.I." is boring, and the political takes are as hot as ranch dressing.
Are you into anything else? Do you have a dog or cat? Do you have hobbies? Eat anything cool recently?
Speaking for myself here, I don't want to see the same thing you would post to linkedin. I want to see who people are when they are not working.
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@awfulwoman @CiaraNi @scottjenson I also suspect this guy simply treats engagement as number go up, and has no idea how much of it is bots.
@NotTheLBCGuy @CiaraNi @scottjenson yeah, this. I only allow about 1 in 5 follower requests as most are absolute junk. Follower number obsession is a Twitter mind virus.
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@scottjenson @cratermoon @evan Your entire point sounds rather spoiled tbqh. They’re complaining that nobody is liking what they’re saying and then, instead of having the slightest bit of introspection and maybe considering that maybe they’re saying things that people don’t care for, they are blaming everyone else.
@scottjenson @cratermoon @evan Also, what is he talking about with the lukewarm to politics bit, this is one of the most political spaces I’ve seen. Granted they are left wing, and not fully focused on the USA, but still.
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"It's just that nobody is obliged to listen to you"
I think it would be great if we could all agree on this.
Don't like someone? Block them. Don't like a community? Block their server.
It's when people try to actively police members of other communities they don't belong to when things turn nasty.
I think this is something moderators need to clamp down on.
I'm afraid we can't agree on the single item only that you are cherrypicking here.
If you feel "policed", your own argument applies: block them, or block their server.
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@yosh @awfulwoman @scottjenson That's an excellent distinction. Mastodon and the Fediverse feels like a community of humans to me, a social network, like meeting in a café. Not a media outlet for broadcasting one-way.
@CiaraNi
We have conversations on here daily.
*Daily*
Actual conversations.
With humans.
With opinions. And facts. And knowledge.
And occasionally explosions.
@yosh @awfulwoman @scottjenson -
@CiaraNi
We have conversations on here daily.
*Daily*
Actual conversations.
With humans.
With opinions. And facts. And knowledge.
And occasionally explosions.
@yosh @awfulwoman @scottjenson@kianryan @yosh @awfulwoman @scottjenson We do indeed, and it's a lovely café to hang out in for that reason.
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